A Plastic Keris? for comment.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 06:29 PM

As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be).

So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no?

The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?

Rick · 12th April 2005, 06:50 PM

Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me .

It could possibly be a simple Solo blade .

Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) .
I'll continue poring through the pictures now ...........

The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan .

knife7knut · 12th April 2005, 10:38 PM

One of the easiest ways to test an object is to find a smooth spot and rub it briskly with your finger several times and then either sniff it or touch the tip of your tongue to the area.Styrene plastic not only gives off an odor(compare it by doing the same to a plastic model car)but will give a burning sensation to your tongue.
Celluloid(an early type of plastic made with cellulose nitrate,camphor,and alcohol)will give off a vaguely medicine type smell.Bakelite(another early plastic)gives off a very strong smell.Resins are probably similar to styrene(not too familiar with them).
If it is found to be made from celluloid,it should be isolated from other knives as when celluloid breaks down it gives off an extremely corrosive gas that will rust carbon steel very quickly.
I've had this problem with vintage pocket knives and it seems to occur at random.I've had several knives that had the scale on one side crumble and fall apart while the other side remained as new.No one seems to know exactly what triggers the reaction,but when it does the process is irreversible.
Just my two cents' worth.
Cheers
Ray

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:08 AM

To dis-spell if it is plastic or not, here is a close up of the bottom of the face on the hulu. You can see the seam from the end of the beak to the neck, and the many bubbles... sanded seams are everywhere on the hulu and sheath as are the hollow bubbles (you can see them on the sheath edge here but blurry), but of course it is all painted, or chromed over and the plastic is not directly exposed for testing. I hope the picture helps.

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:19 AM

Also,

Removing the keris, and looking inside the sheath... it is ruff plastic that has been ground in areas to fit the keris and then plainly painted brown. Where the paint has worn off, it is cream yellow in color.

At a distance, it looks impressive... but up close, it does not stand under scrutiny.

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:26 AM

More bubbles (they are the lighter color spots in this picture on the sheath edges and some dark ones too).....

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:37 AM

The back detail is terrible (obviously a casting)! Compare it to the first picture at the top of the page.

12th April 2005, 06:50 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me . It could possibly be a simple Solo blade . Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) . I'll continue poring through the pictures now ........... The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan . Last edited by Rick; 12th April 2005 at 07:10 PM.

12th April 2005, 10:38 PM	#3
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Non-Destructive Test for Plastic One of the easiest ways to test an object is to find a smooth spot and rub it briskly with your finger several times and then either sniff it or touch the tip of your tongue to the area.Styrene plastic not only gives off an odor(compare it by doing the same to a plastic model car)but will give a burning sensation to your tongue. Celluloid(an early type of plastic made with cellulose nitrate,camphor,and alcohol)will give off a vaguely medicine type smell.Bakelite(another early plastic)gives off a very strong smell.Resins are probably similar to styrene(not too familiar with them). If it is found to be made from celluloid,it should be isolated from other knives as when celluloid breaks down it gives off an extremely corrosive gas that will rust carbon steel very quickly. I've had this problem with vintage pocket knives and it seems to occur at random.I've had several knives that had the scale on one side crumble and fall apart while the other side remained as new.No one seems to know exactly what triggers the reaction,but when it does the process is irreversible. Just my two cents' worth. Cheers Ray

13th April 2005, 01:08 AM	#4
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	To dis-spell if it is plastic or not, here is a close up of the bottom of the face on the hulu. You can see the seam from the end of the beak to the neck, and the many bubbles... sanded seams are everywhere on the hulu and sheath as are the hollow bubbles (you can see them on the sheath edge here but blurry), but of course it is all painted, or chromed over and the plastic is not directly exposed for testing. I hope the picture helps. Attached Images

13th April 2005, 01:26 AM	#6
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	More bubbles (they are the lighter color spots in this picture on the sheath edges and some dark ones too)..... Attached Images

13th April 2005, 01:37 AM	#7
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	The back detail is terrible (obviously a casting)! Compare it to the first picture at the top of the page. Attached Images

12th April 2005, 06:29 PM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be). So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no? The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?

13th April 2005, 01:19 AM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Also, Removing the keris, and looking inside the sheath... it is ruff plastic that has been ground in areas to fit the keris and then plainly painted brown. Where the paint has worn off, it is cream yellow in color. At a distance, it looks impressive... but up close, it does not stand under scrutiny.