Strange flamboyant blade rapier on ebay

fearn · 12th November 2008, 11:05 PM

Hi David,

Thanks for reminding me about the origin of the pineapple. Since we're on word origins, I'd also point out that the term pommel originated with pomme, which is, of course, an apple. I'm not sure whether older round pommels were meant to represent apples or pomegranates (latin for "seeded apple"), but that only points out that swordsmiths don't often make botanically accurate pommels, unless they have a reason.

That's the question here, though, is whether there's a reason for the design of this sword. As you indirectly pointed out, that reason can be tied up with the age of the blade.

In a 16th century pineapple pommel (if such a thing existed), the fruit would symbolize exoticism and the New World, and would probably be Spanish. If we assume that this is from the 18th or 19th Century, the pineapple might symbolize wealth, as in "I'm wealthy enough to finance a hothouse that lets me grow my own pineapples." In that case, the blade would be northern European. The pineapple also retains its air of tropical exoticism, but it's really a symbol of wealth.

We can look at some other pommels. For instance, an acorn pommel may simply be there as a skull crusher. Alternatively, if the acorn pommel is realistic, we might legitimately expect the piece to be a hunting sword. I'm not sure if there is a reason to have a pinecone on a sword, let alone a strawberry. When I thought about a raspberry, the image of Sir Framboise got me giggling, and I haven't pursued that line...

Personally, I still think it's supposed to be a pineapple. Unless Jim speaks up again and lets us know what type of fruit the freemasons think grows on the Tree of Knowledge that the flaming sword should guard... Then we might have something else to discuss.

Best,
F

12th November 2008, 11:05 PM	#19
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi David, Thanks for reminding me about the origin of the pineapple. Since we're on word origins, I'd also point out that the term pommel originated with pomme, which is, of course, an apple. I'm not sure whether older round pommels were meant to represent apples or pomegranates (latin for "seeded apple"), but that only points out that swordsmiths don't often make botanically accurate pommels, unless they have a reason. That's the question here, though, is whether there's a reason for the design of this sword. As you indirectly pointed out, that reason can be tied up with the age of the blade. In a 16th century pineapple pommel (if such a thing existed), the fruit would symbolize exoticism and the New World, and would probably be Spanish. If we assume that this is from the 18th or 19th Century, the pineapple might symbolize wealth, as in "I'm wealthy enough to finance a hothouse that lets me grow my own pineapples." In that case, the blade would be northern European. The pineapple also retains its air of tropical exoticism, but it's really a symbol of wealth. We can look at some other pommels. For instance, an acorn pommel may simply be there as a skull crusher. Alternatively, if the acorn pommel is realistic, we might legitimately expect the piece to be a hunting sword. I'm not sure if there is a reason to have a pinecone on a sword, let alone a strawberry. When I thought about a raspberry, the image of Sir Framboise got me giggling, and I haven't pursued that line... Personally, I still think it's supposed to be a pineapple. Unless Jim speaks up again and lets us know what type of fruit the freemasons think grows on the Tree of Knowledge that the flaming sword should guard... Then we might have something else to discuss. Best, F