Leather Sheath Sword

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 10:37 PM

I knew there was something else. Kuba ilwoon is not a flat sword. It is midribbed, with a wide flat tip, not dis-similar to the widened, flatter/thinner cutting tip on (at least my) seme.

Ian · 12th April 2005, 02:33 AM

Here is another sword similar to the seme with a spatulate blade and a diamond cross section to the "forte." The closest example I have found is in the book Afrikanische Waffen by Fisher and Zirngibl, Plate 47, p. 37. They list that sword as "Jaunde" (from Cameroon).

Ian

Conogre · 12th April 2005, 08:13 AM

Tom, just a point to consider....is it not possible that something "filmed" means it was organized?
All too often, particularly in older safari movie/travelogue/documentaries (Frank Buck comes immediately to mind) what is seen is distinctly different from uncoached tribal activities, such as a lion hunt vs an individual initiation rite.
That one is sweet Ian, and I agree, it does look a lot liek a seme.
From my experience so far, it seems likely that there are possibly hundreds or relatively unknown African weapons as so little study has been done, compared to the Philippines, or Indonesia, contributed to by both the immense size of the entire continent and the fact that so much of it was inaccessable until comparatively recent times.
I apologize about the Ilwoon statement Tom, thinking about more recent specimens as opposed to your exceptionally nice one (or perhaps NOT thinking before typing is more appropriate), another case where they have changed radically in the past 50 years or so.
Mike

tom hyle · 12th April 2005, 01:35 PM

Conogre (almost typoed and called you Conagra; a disasterous misapellation averted!), a very good point. The lion killing (the hunt wasn't shown; he could've come out of a box for all I know; seriously, they often keep wild animals in like crates when the live-catch them) I saw was definitely organized; very much so, and for all I know, not entirely by the natives, or if so, organized not by their own law/practices, but maybe to what would look most spectacular to outsiders, etc. Good point. It's a-sinkin' in.
Now, Ilwoonesques

can be where things fall apart with my idea (and I so need a cultural map of central Africa and of SE Asia) For instance, the Mongo, Konda, etc. ones with the offset blades, but even they seem to have thick sturdy shafts in their earlier form, and there is the midribbed form of them. It seems that in much of modern Africa an industrial machete blade is the prefferred raw material for a new sword, and who can blame them? The things are cheap, and usually, even new ones, of decent quality from a using perspective, and I personally highly suspect the thin flatness of machete is an African feature to start with, though a somewhat seperate tradition from these heavy midribbed swords, so full circle, in a way.....

tom hyle · 13th April 2005, 02:40 AM

BTW, Thanks for that angled close-up of the Shi sword; really shows the massiveness.

12th April 2005, 02:33 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Here is another sword similar to the seme with a spatulate blade and a diamond cross section to the "forte." The closest example I have found is in the book Afrikanische Waffen by Fisher and Zirngibl, Plate 47, p. 37. They list that sword as "Jaunde" (from Cameroon). Ian Attached Images

11th April 2005, 10:37 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I knew there was something else. Kuba ilwoon is not a flat sword. It is midribbed, with a wide flat tip, not dis-similar to the widened, flatter/thinner cutting tip on (at least my) seme.

12th April 2005, 08:13 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Tom, just a point to consider....is it not possible that something "filmed" means it was organized? All too often, particularly in older safari movie/travelogue/documentaries (Frank Buck comes immediately to mind) what is seen is distinctly different from uncoached tribal activities, such as a lion hunt vs an individual initiation rite. That one is sweet Ian, and I agree, it does look a lot liek a seme. From my experience so far, it seems likely that there are possibly hundreds or relatively unknown African weapons as so little study has been done, compared to the Philippines, or Indonesia, contributed to by both the immense size of the entire continent and the fact that so much of it was inaccessable until comparatively recent times. I apologize about the Ilwoon statement Tom, thinking about more recent specimens as opposed to your exceptionally nice one (or perhaps NOT thinking before typing is more appropriate), another case where they have changed radically in the past 50 years or so. Mike

12th April 2005, 01:35 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Conogre (almost typoed and called you Conagra; a disasterous misapellation averted!), a very good point. The lion killing (the hunt wasn't shown; he could've come out of a box for all I know; seriously, they often keep wild animals in like crates when the live-catch them) I saw was definitely organized; very much so, and for all I know, not entirely by the natives, or if so, organized not by their own law/practices, but maybe to what would look most spectacular to outsiders, etc. Good point. It's a-sinkin' in. Now, Ilwoonesques can be where things fall apart with my idea (and I so need a cultural map of central Africa and of SE Asia) For instance, the Mongo, Konda, etc. ones with the offset blades, but even they seem to have thick sturdy shafts in their earlier form, and there is the midribbed form of them. It seems that in much of modern Africa an industrial machete blade is the prefferred raw material for a new sword, and who can blame them? The things are cheap, and usually, even new ones, of decent quality from a using perspective, and I personally highly suspect the thin flatness of machete is an African feature to start with, though a somewhat seperate tradition from these heavy midribbed swords, so full circle, in a way.....

13th April 2005, 02:40 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, Thanks for that angled close-up of the Shi sword; really shows the massiveness.