Old knife with military markings -- ideas?

zelbone · 11th April 2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Ian , perhaps the answer (or clues) may be found in a study of the regimental history .

I'd also like to ask you if Marc has suggested any particular alternate Spanish Colonial areas as origin .

To add I'd also like to suggest that hand engraving (which is what this script looks like to me) would not be used for a Gov't issue work knife .

We have seen plenty of examples of bringbacks and souvenir pieces that have been hand engraved .

I was thinking the same thing, Rick. This could have been a Spanish soldier's souvenir.

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 06:00 PM

Some unorganized thoughts: Rick's middle sword, the one with the spiral handle, looks like it may actually be shortened(?) As I explain a bit on the other current thread about these (Is there a combining function? can someone post a clickable link? Am I making too much work for people?), some people do like a wide/blunt tip for fighting. But probably it was a soldier's private issue sword, quite possibly from his past civilian life, but often military units like to keep the men "disarmed" when not fighting; and it is in specifically ,military or other confined regimented environments where you sometimes find regulations that can create such blades.
Matulis do indeed closely resemble some Spainish and Mexican bolos ( I will try to send a pic, one day, one day.....); food for definite thought. Of course, the unit designation could well be that of a foreign/invading soldier, as Rick says.
Ian, I think the cross-section you're describing is "humpy-flatty" flat as flat or an obvious attempt at it on one side, the other wedges all the way down to the edge, but is distinctly not flat, but humped with a continual rounded convexly curved surface. This is a common alternative form of a chisel grind, and is probably created more in after-market sharpening in many cases, but is similar to a one-sided version of, for instance, a Japanese "clam shell" bevel, but on the other hand, a similarly humped surface, though with a centralized edge, like the clamshell, is not uncommon on old European swords, especially "folk art"/poor peoples' swords.....

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 10:50 PM

Furthermore, I do think the way the blade narrows toward the end, rather than being parrallel edged or widening, as well as its curvature is similar to the pointed matulis, and is a further indication that this is an altered form of that.

Federico · 11th April 2005, 11:16 PM

Just curious if you ever found out what type of wood is on the hilt, possibly another clue to origin. As you noted it is a fairly ubiquitous style in Spanish colonies, were you able to establish if these are Spanish army markings or simply markings in Spanish? Towards the end of the 19th century, we are speaking of a very limited area from where the knife could come from, if it is Spanish Army. If just simply in Spanish, well even in PI many official documents were still in Spanish up to the 1930s.

11th April 2005, 06:00 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Some unorganized thoughts: Rick's middle sword, the one with the spiral handle, looks like it may actually be shortened(?) As I explain a bit on the other current thread about these (Is there a combining function? can someone post a clickable link? Am I making too much work for people?), some people do like a wide/blunt tip for fighting. But probably it was a soldier's private issue sword, quite possibly from his past civilian life, but often military units like to keep the men "disarmed" when not fighting; and it is in specifically ,military or other confined regimented environments where you sometimes find regulations that can create such blades. Matulis do indeed closely resemble some Spainish and Mexican bolos ( I will try to send a pic, one day, one day.....); food for definite thought. Of course, the unit designation could well be that of a foreign/invading soldier, as Rick says. Ian, I think the cross-section you're describing is "humpy-flatty" flat as flat or an obvious attempt at it on one side, the other wedges all the way down to the edge, but is distinctly not flat, but humped with a continual rounded convexly curved surface. This is a common alternative form of a chisel grind, and is probably created more in after-market sharpening in many cases, but is similar to a one-sided version of, for instance, a Japanese "clam shell" bevel, but on the other hand, a similarly humped surface, though with a centralized edge, like the clamshell, is not uncommon on old European swords, especially "folk art"/poor peoples' swords.....

11th April 2005, 10:50 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Furthermore, I do think the way the blade narrows toward the end, rather than being parrallel edged or widening, as well as its curvature is similar to the pointed matulis, and is a further indication that this is an altered form of that.

11th April 2005, 11:16 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Just curious if you ever found out what type of wood is on the hilt, possibly another clue to origin. As you noted it is a fairly ubiquitous style in Spanish colonies, were you able to establish if these are Spanish army markings or simply markings in Spanish? Towards the end of the 19th century, we are speaking of a very limited area from where the knife could come from, if it is Spanish Army. If just simply in Spanish, well even in PI many official documents were still in Spanish up to the 1930s.