Genuine crusader blade?

[Jim McDougall]

In checking further in "Armi Bianche Italiene" (L.Boccia & E. Coelho, 1975, Milan), there is further confirmation of these deep stamped markings as seen on the forte (termed 'twig marks' by Sir James Mann, in "Wallace Collections"). These occur in groupings, or singly (also noted Mann, p.255), and are noted as commonly on Italian blades.
While these markings do go back to the early 16th century in some cases, and into the early 17th on rapier blades, these heavier blades are more found on swords such as the schiavona 17th, through the 18th century. Perhaps This blade may be of that period.

The cross and orb, as noted, is taken from both Italian and German versions of 16th and 17th century. The roughly inscribed example on this blade takes the line of the cross through the circle entirely...contrary to most European markings where the line stops halfway at the midpoint of the orb. Again, this simply suggests native application.

I cannot be certain of the script on the blade, but it does appear to be either Ge'ez or very close (to my linguistically untrained eye ) , and I would defer to our linguists on that. I could only identify one repeated letter or fidel which seems Amharic.

The embossed work on the scabbard mounts and hilt resembles some Yemeni weapons I have seen , and contact between these regions and Ethiopia is seen in the influences of a number of swords motif and blades.

Some interesting potential with this one and I hope we get the chance to follow it.


Best regards,
Jim

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hello, I am not experienced in the blades, but just to the sword generally:

The only one country, where I saw this type of hilt, was Tunisia -cca three very old swords during three years (not even Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Erithrea, Djibouti or Ethiopia).

My opinion is, the inscription is n o t Amharic or G´eez. (By the way, once I bought nice shamshir with a long Arabic inscription on the blade in gold from both sides. Nobody could read as long as I brought it to one old university professor, he read it and explained me the inscription was made in Northern Africa, whre

[Martin Lubojacky]

sorry, I continue:

....so the inscription was made in the North Africa, where the craftmen were mostly iliterates at that time....

Regards,

Martin

[Mark]

I agree that it is not Amharic or Ge'ez, which both use an alphabet that which is vaguely reminischent of the Hebrew alphabet. Found this cool web-site that shows both Amharic & Ge'ez: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/amharic.htm

Of course, I'm not being very helpful in merely confirming what it is not

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Martin and Mark. Not being a linguist, I was not entirely convinced of this inscription in Ge'ez either, but it did not appear Arabic, nor actually does it seem to conform to any particular 'script'. The suggestion of being applied by illiterate 'craftsmen' is entirely well placed, and seems to correspond to the use of 'Thuluth' motif during the Mahdist period from Sudan and often even as far as Niger.
In viewing the hilt form while researching on this, the more modern (early 20th century) forms of takouba seem to have the tall conical pommel shape, and the crossguard of block form as well seems somewhat similar stylewise. Despite these free associations, I did not feel comfortable suggesting any Tuareg connection, as the hilt on this is certainly not as dimensional and seems more profiled.

I think the note by Martin about several swords of this type in the Tunisia area, or virtually any number of locations along the North African trade port regions. As I mentioned, the work on the mounts seem to resemble Arabic work from Yemen and Hadramaut, and the profound trade between southern Arabia and North Africa really makes this difficult without other known examples to compare.

I think we are on track with the blade though, and still believe it is early, probably late 17th to early 18th century, with the deep stamp suggesting Italian origin. As it seems agreed, the cross and orb and the 'script' seem native applied.

As always, more research!! and in discovering what something is ,often entails finding out what it is not, thus even negative observations are most important in mention I'd really like to figure out where this hilt is from !!

Best regards,
Jim

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hello Jim,

I have several Takoubas an Kaskaras, all of them I bought in their countries of origin. When I saw this sword (I mean with exactly the same hilt) in Tunisia, I was hasitating if to buy it or not and I did nit take it from two reasons: first of all it was not complete (without the sheath) and secondly - my feeling - at that time - was, that this kind of hilt was "unnatural" (it is all made fof wood, even the crossguard, covered with copper plates). After the time I changed my opinion, but I did not find the sword again. When some of my friends travel to the South Arabian countries like Yemen etc (unfortunately I heve never been there), I always ask them to make photos of swords in antique shops - you will not find such hilts there.

The mounting of the sheath resembles the mountings on Yemeni Saifs sheaths etc., but this is style has been practised e.g. by Berbers silversmiths on Djerba, too. The motif is cmommon on South - Mediterranean coast (maybe hand of "Chmesa"), also exactly the same ornamental frame you can find on Berber bracelets. The residues of leather strips on the sheath resembles gripping of Takouba (not Kaskara) sheats.

This is just my observation.

Regards,

Martin

[katana]

Interesting sword ......for future reference of this thread, I 've posted a few pictures.

Regards David
.