Keris Bali

brekele · 28th October 2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I don't think we can have a verb as a dhapur name, Brekele.

We could probably call it "cucuk angsa luk songo" ( nine wave swan --or goose-- beak), if we wanted to give it a Javanese name.

But since it is a modern creation it is probably more politically correct to give it an Indonesian, rather than a Javanese name, so then we could call it "paruh angsa luk sembilan" (means the same thing).

But I don't think we could call it "angsa nyorsor":- "to peck by a goose". Actually since it is a swan (which is the same name as a goose in Javanese and Indonesian) "pecked by a goose" would be "kesosor" ( the 'angsa' is understood) or in the past, "disosor angsa".

Your corection is right Alan. Paruh angsa luk sembilan is sound better.

A. G. Maisey · 28th October 2008, 07:55 AM

Well there we are:- we've got a new dhapur.

Dunno if Kraton Surakarta would accept it.

Probably OK in Kraton Warkoker though.

(Kraton Warkoker:- Kraton Warung Kopi Keris---Indonesians love acronyms)

Re the swan:- I reckon the maker was trying to express his need for recognition by the mighty god Duit---yeah, I know, I'm a cynic.

Mamat Lombok · 15th September 2009, 04:54 AM

dear Mr.Brekele...The Swan symbol in bali / lombok called SARASWATI ( one of Hindhu's GOD ) , i also collect luk 9 Saraswati in silver design with Kojongan / sandang walikat scabbard

A. G. Maisey · 15th September 2009, 05:35 AM

I don't think that is quite correct Mamat Lombok.

Saraswati is certainly one of the Hindu deities who are accepted in the Bali Hindu faith, and she is regarded as the deity associated with knowledge.

She is not synonymous with the swan, and the swan does not represent her, nor is the swan one of her attributes, however, in religious art Saraswati is often shown with a swan near her feet. In mainline Hindu belief the holy swan represents discrimination between good and evil.

There is certainly an association between Saraswati and the holy swan, but I still feel that a swan as a keris motif is a very recent commercial addition.

Still, this is only nitpicking. Your keris also is a very nice piece, whatever its origins or associations.

Alam Shah · 15th September 2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Well there we are:- we've got a new dhapur.

Dunno if Kraton Surakarta would accept it.
Probably OK in Kraton Warkoker though.

(Kraton Warkoker:- Kraton Warung Kopi Keris---Indonesians love acronyms)

Re the swan:- I reckon the maker was trying to express his need for recognition by the mighty god Duit---yeah, I know, I'm a cynic.

Hi Alan,
Nice name..

Since this is a Balinese blade, does it makes a different if Kraton Surakarta accept it or not?

Alam Shah · 15th September 2009, 05:42 AM

Both keris presented here are nicely made. Thanks for sharing.

Personally, the wan doesn't appeal to me in keris context.. As for the aesthetics and shape of the blade, it sort-of 'disturb' the flow and elegance of the blade.. to my eyes anyway.

asomotif · 15th September 2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

recognition by the mighty god Duit---

Mmm..

In dutch language, "duit" is an old word for "coin"
Was the maker going for the money

Nice keris btw.

A. G. Maisey · 15th September 2009, 10:04 AM

Alam Shah, about half the time I'm dead serious, the other half is split between being facetious and being more or less relaxed.

Of course it makes no difference if Surakarta accepts it or not, and in all honesty it makes no difference if any of the pura in Bali accept it or not. It is a modern piece of very nice art work.In fact both blades are.

What is important is if the current generation of keris fanciers, collectors and wearers accept it or not. Its not traditional, and I can see your point Alam Shah when you say it disturbs the flow, but personally I rather like the motif, execution, and idea.

What annoys me with any motif used in a keris blade is if it is poorly executed. I'm not at all adverse to new ideas. The keris has changed throughout its existence, and this is a strength that has allowed it to survive.But I detest ugliness.

"Duit" has come into Indonesian as one of the words for money.

15th September 2009, 04:54 AM	#3
Mamat Lombok Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: lombok-indonesia Posts: 66	saraswati dear Mr.Brekele...The Swan symbol in bali / lombok called SARASWATI ( one of Hindhu's GOD ) , i also collect luk 9 Saraswati in silver design with Kojongan / sandang walikat scabbard Attached Images

15th September 2009, 05:42 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Both keris presented here are nicely made. Thanks for sharing. Personally, the wan doesn't appeal to me in keris context.. As for the aesthetics and shape of the blade, it sort-of 'disturb' the flow and elegance of the blade.. to my eyes anyway. Last edited by Alam Shah; 15th September 2009 at 08:02 AM.

28th October 2008, 07:55 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Well there we are:- we've got a new dhapur. Dunno if Kraton Surakarta would accept it. Probably OK in Kraton Warkoker though. (Kraton Warkoker:- Kraton Warung Kopi Keris---Indonesians love acronyms) Re the swan:- I reckon the maker was trying to express his need for recognition by the mighty god Duit---yeah, I know, I'm a cynic.

15th September 2009, 05:35 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I don't think that is quite correct Mamat Lombok. Saraswati is certainly one of the Hindu deities who are accepted in the Bali Hindu faith, and she is regarded as the deity associated with knowledge. She is not synonymous with the swan, and the swan does not represent her, nor is the swan one of her attributes, however, in religious art Saraswati is often shown with a swan near her feet. In mainline Hindu belief the holy swan represents discrimination between good and evil. There is certainly an association between Saraswati and the holy swan, but I still feel that a swan as a keris motif is a very recent commercial addition. Still, this is only nitpicking. Your keris also is a very nice piece, whatever its origins or associations.

15th September 2009, 10:04 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Alam Shah, about half the time I'm dead serious, the other half is split between being facetious and being more or less relaxed. Of course it makes no difference if Surakarta accepts it or not, and in all honesty it makes no difference if any of the pura in Bali accept it or not. It is a modern piece of very nice art work.In fact both blades are. What is important is if the current generation of keris fanciers, collectors and wearers accept it or not. Its not traditional, and I can see your point Alam Shah when you say it disturbs the flow, but personally I rather like the motif, execution, and idea. What annoys me with any motif used in a keris blade is if it is poorly executed. I'm not at all adverse to new ideas. The keris has changed throughout its existence, and this is a strength that has allowed it to survive.But I detest ugliness. "Duit" has come into Indonesian as one of the words for money.