Chinese Smoking Pipe/Cudgel

[kahnjar1]

I have seen this sort of pipe for sale in "antique" shops in Asia. Not likely to be really old I don't think, although when asked the general reply is something along the lines of "Oh yes velly old, velly rare! Give you good price!" The style though, is certainly like the originals portrayed in old photos of Chinese gentlemen.
In a similar vein, I have 2 Opium pipes from the north of Thailand which both have a concealed dagger, which I suggest was not just there for show!

[Rick]

In Samurai culture the Kiseru saw dual use as a pipe and weapon; Why not the Chinese also ?
Daggers may also be found hidden in Japanese examples but they are not common .
A Google image search using kiseru will show a lot of Japanese examples .


Paging Rich ..................

[Atlantia]

What a brilliant thread! I love these obscure concealed weapons.
Excellent work gentlemen! I shall watch this one with interest.

Regards
Gene

[Rick]

The following should not be considered fact :

From what I understand during the time (Edo, Meiji ??) when the Samurai were forbidden to carry swords the kiseru was a substitute weapon, and we're not talking concealed blades here .
Some were quite long, others were normal sized : mine would have filled the fist quite nicely .

Now I know you're thinking to yourself:"Okay, but can it cut a machine gun barrel ?? "

I wonder if there are 'forms' for pipe fighting ...?

[Klas Larsson]

I have seen rather long and thick smoking pipes for sale at a Chinese weapons dealers a few years ago, they where made of iron and overly robust, looking more like a Chinese mace than anything else, and he sold them as "concealed" weapons. I imagine they can be very efficient in a fight, and more so if you are good with swords and sabers.

I was reminded of that the other day when, at an auction, I saw some big opium pipes, and they struck me as really over sized and very thick and heavy, good enough for blunt trauma. The opium den of the late Qing dynasty may have been a not so safe place, particularly for a well dressed gentleman, and one with a woozy head... so they may come in handy there.

I wonder if there are 'forms' for pipe fighting ...?

There is a form for chop stick fighting here... not bad at all, its in the Xinyi Chuan tradition. On the some video, there is an elderly gentleman doing nice short saber / Dao form, that would fit well into the concept of of pipe fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfwLX...eature=related

The chop stick form is in the end, but the other stuff is interesting to, if you like CMA. The little boy in the very beginning does some Xinyi Qigong moves that are for generating energy, nice.

I do a double stick form that is originally a double dao form, now using two 80-90 centimeter long red oak staffs, and that works well the other way around, doing it as double dao form. I have done it often with with dao down to 50 centimeters, and two big heavy pipes would fit right into it just as well you block with one and hit with the other

[Queequeg]

Originally Posted by Klas Larsson

I have seen rather long and thick smoking pipes for sale at a Chinese weapons dealers a few years ago, they where made of iron and overly robust, looking more like a Chinese mace than anything else, and he sold them as "concealed" weapons. I imagine they can be very efficient in a fight, and more so if you are good with swords and sabers.

I was reminded of that the other day when, at an auction, I saw some big opium pipes, and they struck me as really over sized and very thick and heavy, good enough for blunt trauma. The opium den of the late Qing dynasty may have been a not so safe place, particularly for a well dressed gentleman, and one with a woozy head... so they may come in handy there.


There is a form for chop stick fighting here... not bad at all, its in the Xinyi Chuan tradition. On the some video, there is an elderly gentleman doing nice short saber / Dao form, that would fit well into the concept of of pipe fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfwLX...eature=related

The chop stick form is in the end, but the other stuff is interesting to, if you like CMA. The little boy in the very beginning does some Xinyi Qigong moves that are for generating energy, nice.

I do a double stick form that is originally a double dao form, now using two 80-90 centimeter long red oak staffs, and that works well the other way around, doing it as double dao form. I have done it often with with dao down to 50 centimeters, and two big heavy pipes would fit right into it just as well you block with one and hit with the other

Klas,

Neat stuff on the chopsticks! I agree that these things were purposely designed as cudgels, to be used in the dangerous opium dens and the neighborhoods around them. I don't think they just became bigger over the years because of, say, fashion, like the ruff collar did in Europe. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing) )

[Klas Larsson]

I practice pekiti-tirsia kali. I could use that pipe in the picutres I posted to do any of these movements, assuming the construction were strong enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKhFlVGNlv8&feature=user

Oh yes, I forgot about the Kali, that fits very well to pipe wielding
I have heard from practitioners of Kali sticks that they originate from Chinese saber / dao forms, that the local Chinese populations used. I like those small efficient moves of Kali. The old man in the Xinyi video I link to really looks a bit Kali to me, small moves compared to my own dao forms with big sweeping, huge circling moves, usually for longer swords. But once you can use a sword, you always can replace it with other long objects if they got enough weight. And jian forms can utilize an umbrella to stab and parry, but hitting wont do much good (bad?)...

[Queequeg]

Rick,

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder if there are 'forms' for pipe fighting ...?

I practice pekiti-tirsia kali. I could use that pipe in the picutres I posted to do any of these movements, assuming the construction were strong enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKhFlVGNlv8&feature=user