Preservation of Craftsmanship at National Level

[Gt Obach]

I thought japan had a sort of tradition of "deadly elegance"..... and that you could be summoned by the ruler to prove your steel (or lose your head)

-it could be that you need the formative levels of sword culture before society will embrace the idea of a "national treasure".
-I see the "National treasure" idea as the pinnacle of the institution.... now what were the roots or seeds that grew?
- my point is that you can't build a pyramid by starting at the top.... I would think you need a good base..... and if the base is already there.....then progress can be nudged along !!

say in the instance of the patternweld keris blades..... it seems that they're smiths still use the old ways... and they're still part of the culture and beliefs....
-- i would think that a national treasure idea could take hold here... ?

oh well.... just thought i'd throw some ideas out there.... bout the infrastructure of such an institution


Greg

[tom hyle]

And mind you, not neccessarily government sponsorship, but over-culture/academic interest of some type is often the only thing (other than certain layers in the soil ) that ends up preserving any knowledge about a thing. However, a surprising amount of knowledge often lives at a folkloric level that is often unfortuneately dismissed by over culture experts as "legend" urban or otherwise, as not presented in the proper way by the proper person to suit the rules of that tribe, or as "not real blues (bowie knife, Japanese sword, insert category) because it doesn't fit our definition." Also, it does seem to me there is an insidiousness in the way it does its preserving; by replacing deep and broad genuine and ancient traditions with its often shallow and outside understanding gleaned from studying a subject with a (relatively) few socially designated experts for perhaps a matter of a few decades, or at very most the two or three centuries in which the overculture has been at the point of advancement (in its own terms; wealth and magic, mostly) to have begun to take more of an interest in other cultures than what can be gotten from them in direct material or economic terms and how.

[Mark]

This is actually a rather depressing issue. Traditional crafts, and dare I say pride in the craftsmanship per se, often gets dropped in favor of commercial considerations. As Antonio said, quantity over quality. I doubt that this is a conscious choice by the craftsment, but they have to feed themselves and their families. This is where some sort of institutional support would be of great benefit. The time was in Burma, Thailand and Laos (and I am sure other places, but these are the ones I happen to know a little about), it was royal patronage that kept the top-quality craftsmanship alive, essentially by commissioning and buying regular amounts of the stuff. Now, there are no patrons, and so the craftsman is left with little choice but to follow the actual market, which in the case of something like sword crafting is the tourist or martial arts market. Neither has much need for quality, aside from pleasing looks, and even then the standards can be pretty low.

From what I know about Aranyik, the people of that town gave their lives defending a strategically critical resource (the weapons industry, including the smiths themselves), during the last and most devastating Burmese invasion, fighting to the last while the capital surrendered. I should think that would merit some acknowledgement of the people, and the craft for which they sacrificed themselves. Perhaps this is an avenue by which to propose some sort of cultural heritage program to support the traditional (and quality) craft of sword making, at least in Thailand.

Of course, sword crafting is not the only industry to suffer. In Burma certain schools of ivory carving have completely died out for lack of patronage, and now their styles only survive through the work of imitators without a direct link to the tradition. Other schools remain, but are not what they once were in terms of quality.

I wish that I had an answer, but this is something that must come from within a culture, as Tom said, though outside help would certainly make it grow stronger once it has started.

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

This is actually a rather depressing issue. Traditional crafts, and dare I say pride in the craftsmanship per se, often gets dropped in favor of commercial considerations. As Antonio said, quantity over quality. I doubt that this is a conscious choice by the craftsment, but they have to feed themselves and their families.

I wish that I had an answer, but this is something that must come from within a culture, as Tom said, though outside help would certainly make it grow stronger once it has started.

Mark, You must've posted at the same time as my imediately previous post (to thhis one). I so agree with and am moved by all you've said here that I've paused in reading the thread to reply. Actually most craftsmen are intensly aware of the dichotomy of pulls on both the quality/true traditional fanciness of our work, and on the subjects of our work (ex will I make a superb traditional dha with hundreds of hours of carving on an incredibly finely polished and intricate hilt, that it will be very hard to find someone who can afford, or will I make a bunch of simpler, perhaps even lower quality in using terms, ones that I can readily sell all I make of? It's the issue of what artists call "selling out", and of course, in the real world, it is what many have to do to survive, while a few of great strength and vitality can outproduce and somehow outshine society's disaproval or unwillingness to pay for the heavy costs of true fine fine traditional tradional hand processes, and a few particularly skillful, personable artists using particularly socially accepted methods (and the occasional though very rare, actual non-scene outsider) get rich and famous, making fance, which has dictates, too, and limitting ones; mostly of style, fads, what have you, etc., rather than of cost, although some of the very fancy stuff I've seen made had all sorts of "cut corner" penny pinchingness evident, often particularly when it comes to "field" usefulness. oh, the art and craftsmanship market is a wild thing. I did a bunch of work in fancy custom wood and paint (too much for my health though), you definitely get a perspective; the issue is very much on the minds of many craftsmen; we talk with each other about it often, actually.

[tom hyle]

BTW, I don't know about Itally, but is there still Johan Schmiddberger (spelling?) in Austria(? I think?) ? I think he is underwritten on government supported, or at least recognized, and works at an ancient forge, AFAIK...................I had an "oh-no second" as I shut my computer down, but then I had to go help my sister paint her house; I don't know where I got Itally from; I think I thought Antonio was there....