Sundang, moro kris or whatelse?

kai · 28th September 2008, 02:47 PM

Hello Henk,

Quote:

Pommel looks more wood to me. I can't discover the ivory.

That's not wood grain but Schrade lines...

Thus, should be elephant. Flavio you could try measuring the exact angle to determine the genus/species. BTW, I would be interested to see an example of Moro ivory verified as being made from mammoth (which seems to have been widely traded - reaching SE Asia seems not unlikely).

Regards,
Kai

Flavio · 28th September 2008, 03:14 PM

Hello Henk,

pommel is definitely ivory and as Kai says, seems more elephant. The point is: the color is due to the age or it was painted to seem older?! What do you think?

Thanks

Battara · 28th September 2008, 03:41 PM

Elephant ivory I agree. Not Moro etching I also agree. Been glued back together - yes. Been painted - not sure but don't think so.

Rick · 28th September 2008, 05:48 PM

Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

Flavio · 28th September 2008, 07:14 PM

Hi Rick,

I have this other kris with something similar, but since the blade is etched in a more "moro traditional way" it is less visible

The horn handle seems also old, but maybe, as Jose says, put togheter with the pommel.... It is entirely unusual to see something like this on a moro kris.... or not?

Battara · 28th September 2008, 11:34 PM

Not seen a horn hilt with ivory pommel before like this, but I also have not seen everything.

josh stout · 29th September 2008, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

Is that the same as a "lap weld"?

I have seen a few on Chinese pieces.
Josh

Amuk Murugul · 29th September 2008, 05:12 AM

Hullo everybody,

From the photos posted, my impression is that of a Peninsular Sundang with Maguindanao origin/influence. I have seen similar etching. Pommel can be one piece with the hilt (gilded or not), if made of ebony/horn, or a separate piece of ivory. The cockatoo shape is usually more stylised (smooth). Sometimes, a cup is used instead of a ferrule. Unusual to retain the stirrup.

All the best

Newsteel · 29th September 2008, 05:52 AM

I do not have much knowledge about sundang but would agree with Amuk Murugul. This sundang looks Malay to me or possible Riau.

28th September 2008, 07:14 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Rick, I have this other kris with something similar, but since the blade is etched in a more "moro traditional way" it is less visible The horn handle seems also old, but maybe, as Jose says, put togheter with the pommel.... It is entirely unusual to see something like this on a moro kris.... or not? Attached Images

28th September 2008, 03:14 PM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Henk, pommel is definitely ivory and as Kai says, seems more elephant. The point is: the color is due to the age or it was painted to seem older?! What do you think? Thanks

28th September 2008, 03:41 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Elephant ivory I agree. Not Moro etching I also agree. Been glued back together - yes. Been painted - not sure but don't think so.

28th September 2008, 05:48 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

28th September 2008, 11:34 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Not seen a horn hilt with ivory pommel before like this, but I also have not seen everything.

29th September 2008, 05:12 AM	#8
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 474	Hullo everybody, From the photos posted, my impression is that of a Peninsular Sundang with Maguindanao origin/influence. I have seen similar etching. Pommel can be one piece with the hilt (gilded or not), if made of ebony/horn, or a separate piece of ivory. The cockatoo shape is usually more stylised (smooth). Sometimes, a cup is used instead of a ferrule. Unusual to retain the stirrup. All the best

29th September 2008, 05:52 AM	#9
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	I do not have much knowledge about sundang but would agree with Amuk Murugul. This sundang looks Malay to me or possible Riau.