A tiny cannon for ID and coments

fernando · 13th August 2008, 11:51 PM

Hi Mark
Such a pitty you didn't get it; very serious stuff ... so it looks.
Rather reinforced barrel, wide ( or worn) touch hole, large caliber ... meaning XIX century or even prior ? Not old enough to de considered a hand cannon, though ?
Also not a coehorn mortar ... It would need trunnions placed low, by the breech, for the rotation, right ?
It has a cascable, though ... was it moveable ?
I'm glad there are no experts around, to shut me up

.
Fernando

kronckew · 14th August 2008, 12:15 AM

no trunnions, so likely not an aimable mortar or cannon, may have been strapped to a carriage of some sort, too big & too recent for a hand cannon. too short for much. s缠mall cannon were used for line throwing but would have had trunnions . small rail mounted anti-personnel cannon would have had trunnions to mount it on a swivel. my guess is a signal cannon for a larger ship.

coehorn mortar, trunnions on base

small swivel gun, trunnions again

this small late 18c - early 19c howitzer is close, but has trunnions again.

lyle gun (line throwing)

trunnions again - this is a big lyle.

more traditional brass one in high polish

here's the whole gubbins with the coast guard crew to service it.

aha! a trunnion-less one mounted on a fixed base!

this is a signal gun used to start yacht races

note that 19-20c cannon of this type would have a lanyard operated percussion firing device threaded into it rather than a touch hole. removal would leave a larger hole than we'd expect for one fired by a slow match.

one for a lyle gun

M ELEY · 14th August 2008, 05:24 AM

Thanks for responding, guys. Fernando, you sound like you're closer to expert than you let on!

Your comments are right on and that I didn't have the funds to get this cannon before the auction ended (got a nice boarding axe instead, though!)

Kronckew, thanks for posting all of these pics of some pretty cool cannons. That trunnion-less one in particular is interesting to see, as most either had them or were the older signal-types. I had never seen one without them until you posted this pic. I had thought deck gun, but of course they were all swivels, so your argument stands. Yes, in the early/mid-19th century, they started using a percussion firing system on deck cannons, ship signallers, and even on some swivel guns. I guess it was a lot easier than trying to use the old lit fuse.

katana · 14th August 2008, 02:28 PM

Hi,
I am beginning to think that the 'Austrian cannon' may have been cut down, below the trunnions. If you look at this picture there seems to be some machined surfaces, the deep pit looks like a 'casting flaw'. Perhaps the pitted face is evidence of an original fracture cause by stress....and then was cut at that point ???

The other picture is another cannon of unusual form

Regards David

fernando · 14th August 2008, 03:26 PM

What a bombastic proposition, David ... and quite a plausible one

. That would solve the riddle and make the piece look more rational

.
Then who ever made the job, must have also grinded the muzzle rim into that slightly conical shape; the other remaining "rings" have a paralel section ... if i make myself understood ... and if i'm not talking nonsense

.
Fernando

kronckew · 14th August 2008, 03:31 PM

Where's the KABOOM? there was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM!

(sorry, the devil made me do it!)

anyway, that looks very plausible, those marks look very much like it's been sawn & ground a bit - hadn't noticed them earlier. nasty inclusion woulda blown anyways at some point...

fernando · 14th August 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

...
The other picture is another cannon of unusual form

.

Beautyful "cradle". I saw a similar one with those staves, the other day, at the Lisbon Military Museum. Very old stuff ... XV-XVI century?
Fernando

M ELEY · 14th August 2008, 11:41 PM

Thanks, David. I think you've got a very good point there. I still always seem to forget about cutting down weapons, as so many have been over the centuries. So it seems the Austrian cannon might have started life as a real mortar-type and in its working life, been cut down to more of a signal type. Interesting, still would have looked good in my collection next to the Brazilian pirate cutlass

M ELEY · 15th August 2008, 11:18 PM

Another interesting cannon ended "early" on ebay -170248710723. Question is, is it authentic. Says in description touch hole is sealed? Rusted shut? Or maybe a cannon that was never finished for firing? Repro artificially aged? Opinions?

14th August 2008, 12:15 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	no trunnions, so likely not an aimable mortar or cannon, may have been strapped to a carriage of some sort, too big & too recent for a hand cannon. too short for much. s缠mall cannon were used for line throwing but would have had trunnions . small rail mounted anti-personnel cannon would have had trunnions to mount it on a swivel. my guess is a signal cannon for a larger ship. coehorn mortar, trunnions on base small swivel gun, trunnions again this small late 18c - early 19c howitzer is close, but has trunnions again. lyle gun (line throwing) trunnions again - this is a big lyle. more traditional brass one in high polish here's the whole gubbins with the coast guard crew to service it. aha! a trunnion-less one mounted on a fixed base! this is a signal gun used to start yacht races note that 19-20c cannon of this type would have a lanyard operated percussion firing device threaded into it rather than a touch hole. removal would leave a larger hole than we'd expect for one fired by a slow match. one for a lyle gun Last edited by kronckew; 14th August 2008 at 12:53 AM.

14th August 2008, 02:28 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi, I am beginning to think that the 'Austrian cannon' may have been cut down, below the trunnions. If you look at this picture there seems to be some machined surfaces, the deep pit looks like a 'casting flaw'. Perhaps the pitted face is evidence of an original fracture cause by stress....and then was cut at that point ??? The other picture is another cannon of unusual form Regards David Attached Images

14th August 2008, 03:26 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What a bombastic proposition, David ... and quite a plausible one . That would solve the riddle and make the piece look more rational . Then who ever made the job, must have also grinded the muzzle rim into that slightly conical shape; the other remaining "rings" have a paralel section ... if i make myself understood ... and if i'm not talking nonsense . Fernando Attached Images

13th August 2008, 11:51 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Mark Such a pitty you didn't get it; very serious stuff ... so it looks. Rather reinforced barrel, wide ( or worn) touch hole, large caliber ... meaning XIX century or even prior ? Not old enough to de considered a hand cannon, though ? Also not a coehorn mortar ... It would need trunnions placed low, by the breech, for the rotation, right ? It has a cascable, though ... was it moveable ? I'm glad there are no experts around, to shut me up . Fernando

14th August 2008, 05:24 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Thanks for responding, guys. Fernando, you sound like you're closer to expert than you let on! Your comments are right on and that I didn't have the funds to get this cannon before the auction ended (got a nice boarding axe instead, though!) Kronckew, thanks for posting all of these pics of some pretty cool cannons. That trunnion-less one in particular is interesting to see, as most either had them or were the older signal-types. I had never seen one without them until you posted this pic. I had thought deck gun, but of course they were all swivels, so your argument stands. Yes, in the early/mid-19th century, they started using a percussion firing system on deck cannons, ship signallers, and even on some swivel guns. I guess it was a lot easier than trying to use the old lit fuse.

14th August 2008, 03:31 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	Where's the KABOOM? there was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM! (sorry, the devil made me do it!) anyway, that looks very plausible, those marks look very much like it's been sawn & ground a bit - hadn't noticed them earlier. nasty inclusion woulda blown anyways at some point...

14th August 2008, 11:41 PM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Thanks, David. I think you've got a very good point there. I still always seem to forget about cutting down weapons, as so many have been over the centuries. So it seems the Austrian cannon might have started life as a real mortar-type and in its working life, been cut down to more of a signal type. Interesting, still would have looked good in my collection next to the Brazilian pirate cutlass

15th August 2008, 11:18 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Another interesting cannon ended "early" on ebay -170248710723. Question is, is it authentic. Says in description touch hole is sealed? Rusted shut? Or maybe a cannon that was never finished for firing? Repro artificially aged? Opinions?