A kuba Nshaal?

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2005, 04:40 PM

Hello all, I have seen Mikes Knife with the Yaka style hilt and scabbard but Cameroon style blade labeled as Songye.I think one has to except some cross over of stylistic boundarys.However I agree with Flavio that I to feel it is not Salampasu, which I believe this is.Tim

Freddy · 30th March 2005, 06:13 PM

I'm starting to like this thread. Let's all show our 'strange' knives and swords.

Mike,

The Mbanja throwing knife could be ceremonial if you look at its shape. But I can assure you : all edges are sharp.
It came in a lot with four other throwing knives. All from the same region, but all with a different shape. I guess the other four are more for 'daily' use. I wouldn't like to be in the flight path when these guys are thrown. All are still sharp.

One thing is sure, a throwing knife made to be used always has a plaited or leather handle (sometimes copper banding is also used). Other material would break on impact.
The ones with wooden or even ivory handles are the ceremonial ones.

This is how I found them :

Look at the edges :

One even has some engravings

By the way, Mike : nice throwing knife. Why not throw it at me

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2005, 06:36 PM

Very nice Freddy,have you got one spare?

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2005, 06:50 PM

I know I am going up North ,I just had to join in one more time.Afene.Tim

Conogre · 30th March 2005, 07:11 PM

I stand corrected on the Salampasu attribution and agree with you guys, particularly after seeing your fine examples.
Mine is definitely a user piece with a raised central rib that's nicely decorated and incised and then is depressed on either side thikening slightly to a reinforced cutting edge that's razor sharp...I'll clean it and post a better blade photo.
Freddy, those throwers are awesome and highly effective and lethal, real beauties....as I said, I had a US mass produced cheap and thinner version and practiced with it until I literally destroyed it, but it was amazingly accurate and almost always struck true, thus giving me a real appreciation for them as both weapons and hunting tools for small game.
Your observation of the ivory and elaborate hilts on throwers would seem to indicate that they also have some prestige value, much like Moro swords from the Philippines more than ceremonial, but I agree, those weren't for everyday use.
Tim, I have one similar to your favorite, only without the widened extension as a pommel...is that one metal or wood?
I've seen one or two with that same hilt and from the photos it almost looked like at least one had a secondary blade for a pommel, perhaps as a built in fleshing tool?
I also agree on posting away as African pieces seem to take a back seat so often, with many truly impressive.
Justin originally thought the African pieces looked flimsy until I let him split a log with one!**grin**
Mike

Conogre · 30th March 2005, 07:14 PM

Sweet Tim...that's one often pictured but relatively rarely seen.
I'm getting more and more envious as this thread goes on.
Mike

Flavio · 30th March 2005, 11:12 PM

Hey guys this thread it's great!! What a gallery of very beautiful pieces!!
And Tim, your salampasu sword it's simple woderfull!! The scabbards is decorated with some shells?

Conogre · 31st March 2005, 05:59 AM

Those are cowie shells, something that I find extremely interesting as they are used as decoration throughout Africa, even in arrid regions hundreds of miles inland, throughout Indonesia and the Philippines and even on many Native American artifacts, making it probably one of the most universally used decorative items in the world.
Although some cowries reach 4" in size, the vast majority are too small to have any value EXCEPT as decor, making it all the stranger.
Mike

Conogre · 31st March 2005, 06:13 AM

Here's two Turkana pieces, just for example, and yes, I KNOW they aren't knives!**grin**
Mike

Freddy · 31st March 2005, 11:10 AM

Nice dress, Mike. On what occasion do you wear it ?

Now for some serious business. Here's an odd one. All I know about it that it came from Cameroon. It has a vicious spike on the handle.
Has anyone seen something like this yet ?

Conogre · 31st March 2005, 04:42 PM

That's a first with a pommel spike, although the rest of it appears to be jambya inspired with similar found throughout regions with a large Muslem population to the extent that further identification would seem very difficult.
As to the "dress"**grin**, it's a male sash and the female form was solely for photo purposes.
Let's just say it's a LOT of fun to open the door on Holloween and watch kids scatter in all directions..... Ive even had a mom or two slightly taken aback! LOL!
Mike

30th March 2005, 04:40 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Hello all, I have seen Mikes Knife with the Yaka style hilt and scabbard but Cameroon style blade labeled as Songye.I think one has to except some cross over of stylistic boundarys.However I agree with Flavio that I to feel it is not Salampasu, which I believe this is.Tim Attached Images

30th March 2005, 06:13 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice selection of African knives I'm starting to like this thread. Let's all show our 'strange' knives and swords. Mike, The Mbanja throwing knife could be ceremonial if you look at its shape. But I can assure you : all edges are sharp. It came in a lot with four other throwing knives. All from the same region, but all with a different shape. I guess the other four are more for 'daily' use. I wouldn't like to be in the flight path when these guys are thrown. All are still sharp. One thing is sure, a throwing knife made to be used always has a plaited or leather handle (sometimes copper banding is also used). Other material would break on impact. The ones with wooden or even ivory handles are the ceremonial ones. This is how I found them : Look at the edges : One even has some engravings By the way, Mike : nice throwing knife. Why not throw it at me

30th March 2005, 06:50 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I know I am going up North ,I just had to join in one more time.Afene.Tim Attached Images

31st March 2005, 06:13 AM	#9
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's two Turkana pieces, just for example, and yes, I KNOW they aren't knives!grin Mike Attached Images

30th March 2005, 06:36 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Very nice Freddy,have you got one spare?

30th March 2005, 07:11 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I stand corrected on the Salampasu attribution and agree with you guys, particularly after seeing your fine examples. Mine is definitely a user piece with a raised central rib that's nicely decorated and incised and then is depressed on either side thikening slightly to a reinforced cutting edge that's razor sharp...I'll clean it and post a better blade photo. Freddy, those throwers are awesome and highly effective and lethal, real beauties....as I said, I had a US mass produced cheap and thinner version and practiced with it until I literally destroyed it, but it was amazingly accurate and almost always struck true, thus giving me a real appreciation for them as both weapons and hunting tools for small game. Your observation of the ivory and elaborate hilts on throwers would seem to indicate that they also have some prestige value, much like Moro swords from the Philippines more than ceremonial, but I agree, those weren't for everyday use. Tim, I have one similar to your favorite, only without the widened extension as a pommel...is that one metal or wood? I've seen one or two with that same hilt and from the photos it almost looked like at least one had a secondary blade for a pommel, perhaps as a built in fleshing tool? I also agree on posting away as African pieces seem to take a back seat so often, with many truly impressive. Justin originally thought the African pieces looked flimsy until I let him split a log with one!grin Mike

30th March 2005, 07:14 PM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Sweet Tim...that's one often pictured but relatively rarely seen. I'm getting more and more envious as this thread goes on. Mike

30th March 2005, 11:12 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hey guys this thread it's great!! What a gallery of very beautiful pieces!! And Tim, your salampasu sword it's simple woderfull!! The scabbards is decorated with some shells?

31st March 2005, 05:59 AM	#8
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Those are cowie shells, something that I find extremely interesting as they are used as decoration throughout Africa, even in arrid regions hundreds of miles inland, throughout Indonesia and the Philippines and even on many Native American artifacts, making it probably one of the most universally used decorative items in the world. Although some cowries reach 4" in size, the vast majority are too small to have any value EXCEPT as decor, making it all the stranger. Mike

31st March 2005, 11:10 AM	#10
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice dress, Mike. On what occasion do you wear it ? Now for some serious business. Here's an odd one. All I know about it that it came from Cameroon. It has a vicious spike on the handle. Has anyone seen something like this yet ?

31st March 2005, 04:42 PM	#11
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	That's a first with a pommel spike, although the rest of it appears to be jambya inspired with similar found throughout regions with a large Muslem population to the extent that further identification would seem very difficult. As to the "dress"grin, it's a male sash and the female form was solely for photo purposes. Let's just say it's a LOT of fun to open the door on Holloween and watch kids scatter in all directions..... Ive even had a mom or two slightly taken aback! LOL! Mike