Moro Armor Arabic Inscription

ward · 3rd July 2008, 11:49 PM

Arabic is the same whether written 800 years ago or today. Their are 4 major script types and some minor ones. THuluth is the one the Turks used most. It is clear and legible unlike some otherts an educated person wrote the lines on that armor. Arabic is a non changing language. Since arabic was given to Mohammed by god and the words of god can not be changed. I can translate admitedly slowly a Koran verse written at 1200 A.D or now and anyone who knows the script changes can also translate it,espeecially Quoranic passages.Arabic is not english which has changed frequently over the years. It is difficult because of the many tenses and pronunciation varies from region to region. Ottoman and modern Turkish are dfferent the main thing is Ottoman was written in Arabic chareacters just like German and Spanish same alphabet but different languages. anting anting yes it is like protection for the wearer

A. G. Maisey · 4th July 2008, 01:02 AM

Ward, I have a very good friend who lives in Jawa, and who is an Imam.He is a highly educated man and is widely respected for his ability to read Arabic scripts. What you have said above, he has also said to me, however, with one addition:- where the script has been written by a person who does not have a high level of learning, or skill, it can result in forms that are incorrect. If the passage is from Al-Qur'an, this is not usually a problem, because once the passage has been identified, the illegible words will be known.
Often we find inscriptions on the reverse of keris scabbards and their metal covers. Sometimes these are in Javanese---which can also present problems with script---but perhaps as often the inscriptions are supposed to be Arabic, and nearly always the incorrectly formed script presents problems that result in a guessing game.

ward · 4th July 2008, 01:21 AM

I do not disagee with seeing bad spelling and some terrible handwiting is a problem. You must remember that artisians that are uneducated are very often copying the script off basically a template. I have often seen script written on the wall of a shop and copied letter by letter onto a piece. Just because you can speak arabic does not mean you can read or write. It still does not mean the language has changed. Allah in 800 A.D. is still Allah 2008 A.D.

Bill M · 4th July 2008, 02:02 AM

Perhaps people can copy letters they may not understand.

Perhaps even Russian and Finish people can sing in English, a language they may not understand. Hope the following link is not to much a diversion from the previous erudite discussion.

At least their hair and shoes look like weapons. I now present one of the most surreal musical renditions it has been my good fortune to experience.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lNFRLrP014

You might want to engage your computer's audio and let's "get down!"

A. G. Maisey · 4th July 2008, 02:17 AM

Agreed Ward, the language has not changed, but the way in which it is represented can vary, depending upon the level of knowledge, education, or skill of the person who writes the inscription.

ward · 4th July 2008, 02:26 AM

If i get a chance this weekend I will take some pics of the various scripts and post them.

Lew · 4th July 2008, 03:50 AM

Ward

I picked up a very nice tulwar a few months back which had this inscription on the spine. I asked about 10 of my Arabic friends to help me out with the translations but none of them could read. They all told me it was an older script form that they were not familar with. So if Arabic is Arabic why did they have trouble reading it? Btw Ham was able to translate it and it reads "THERE IS NO HERO LIKE 'ALI AND SWORD LIKE DHUL'FAKAR".

Lew

3rd July 2008, 11:49 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Arabic is the same whether written 800 years ago or today. Their are 4 major script types and some minor ones. THuluth is the one the Turks used most. It is clear and legible unlike some otherts an educated person wrote the lines on that armor. Arabic is a non changing language. Since arabic was given to Mohammed by god and the words of god can not be changed. I can translate admitedly slowly a Koran verse written at 1200 A.D or now and anyone who knows the script changes can also translate it,espeecially Quoranic passages.Arabic is not english which has changed frequently over the years. It is difficult because of the many tenses and pronunciation varies from region to region. Ottoman and modern Turkish are dfferent the main thing is Ottoman was written in Arabic chareacters just like German and Spanish same alphabet but different languages. anting anting yes it is like protection for the wearer Last edited by ward; 4th July 2008 at 12:44 AM.

4th July 2008, 03:50 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ward I picked up a very nice tulwar a few months back which had this inscription on the spine. I asked about 10 of my Arabic friends to help me out with the translations but none of them could read. They all told me it was an older script form that they were not familar with. So if Arabic is Arabic why did they have trouble reading it? Btw Ham was able to translate it and it reads "THERE IS NO HERO LIKE 'ALI AND SWORD LIKE DHUL'FAKAR". Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 4th July 2008 at 04:01 AM.

4th July 2008, 01:02 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Ward, I have a very good friend who lives in Jawa, and who is an Imam.He is a highly educated man and is widely respected for his ability to read Arabic scripts. What you have said above, he has also said to me, however, with one addition:- where the script has been written by a person who does not have a high level of learning, or skill, it can result in forms that are incorrect. If the passage is from Al-Qur'an, this is not usually a problem, because once the passage has been identified, the illegible words will be known. Often we find inscriptions on the reverse of keris scabbards and their metal covers. Sometimes these are in Javanese---which can also present problems with script---but perhaps as often the inscriptions are supposed to be Arabic, and nearly always the incorrectly formed script presents problems that result in a guessing game.

4th July 2008, 01:21 AM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I do not disagee with seeing bad spelling and some terrible handwiting is a problem. You must remember that artisians that are uneducated are very often copying the script off basically a template. I have often seen script written on the wall of a shop and copied letter by letter onto a piece. Just because you can speak arabic does not mean you can read or write. It still does not mean the language has changed. Allah in 800 A.D. is still Allah 2008 A.D.

4th July 2008, 02:02 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Perhaps people can copy letters they may not understand. Perhaps even Russian and Finish people can sing in English, a language they may not understand. Hope the following link is not to much a diversion from the previous erudite discussion. At least their hair and shoes look like weapons. I now present one of the most surreal musical renditions it has been my good fortune to experience. http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lNFRLrP014 You might want to engage your computer's audio and let's "get down!"

4th July 2008, 02:17 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Agreed Ward, the language has not changed, but the way in which it is represented can vary, depending upon the level of knowledge, education, or skill of the person who writes the inscription.

4th July 2008, 02:26 AM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	If i get a chance this weekend I will take some pics of the various scripts and post them.