A kuba Nshaal?

Flavio · 27th March 2005, 11:40 PM

Great knife, Tim. This is my favourite, a Fang Fa knife from Gabon.

Conogre · 29th March 2005, 06:53 PM

Sweet pieces all.
A couple of years ago I bought what I thought was a Yaka short sword and when it arrived, I was somewhat taken aback as the hilt and scabbard atr typically Yakan while the blade is 100% Salampuso.
Excuse the photo as the color is considerably off and the rust is long gone......leave it to me to come up with the exception rather than the rule!**grin**

When speaking of age in weapons/artifacts from Central Africa, the Amazon basin and New Guinea I personally feel that one has to take a whole different perspective than with those from other regions as there were so many isolated areas that remained unexplored and with populations that were relatively untouched and uncontaminated until well into the middle of the 20th century......an early 1900's piece from some of these regions is often an equivelent to a late 1700's piece from others in regards to tribal "purity".
Mike

Flavio · 29th March 2005, 10:28 PM

What a surprise, Mike! I have a sword with an identical blade like yours, but, untill now, i never seen others! I thought was congolese, but someone said to me that it maybe comes from Cameroon.
Instead there are no doubts it comes from Congo as show the tipical yaka handle and scabbard! But Mike, I don't think that the blade is Salampasu, it's quite different!

Conogre · 30th March 2005, 01:42 AM

I'd hazard a guess that the Ilwoon is actually mid to late 1800's based upon the heavy ridge in the center, with later pieces often much flatter.
The Fang Fa sword is absolutely gorgeous **drool** and Freddy, is your mbanja thrower a user or a ceremonial piece (it looks like the former)as probably 80% of the "throwing knives were actually ceremonial pieces.
Flavio, that is a beautiful sword and definitely the same blade, but with a hilt and scabbard style I've not seen before......just great, now I'm back to square one again, but at least not alone this time! LOL!
Many don't realize that a lot of tribes were actually quite fluid, moving as alliances were made or broken and with many "tribes" actually part of much larger nations, much like the American plains Indians, the African Zulu nation tribes prior to Chaka or even the Mongols prior to Temujen's unification, to go way back.
Here's my latest thrower, a Ngbaka (I believe) user type that ironically was reproduced and mass marketed here in the US about 10 years ago as the "hunga munga"...I wish I'd have kept the US version now more than ever, but alas it was thrown to death!**grin**
Mike

Flavio · 30th March 2005, 11:04 AM

Hello Mike, great throwing knife (even if I preferr to call it throwing blade since here in Italy, and maybe also in other countries, the knife is something very different: a blade with only one edge sharp).
Anyway, about your yaka short sword, I have said previously that the blade, in my opinoin isn't salampasu, (is for the working of the blade, mine is all hammered in the central part, while the salampasu that are mine are completely smoothed, more the midrib is decorated with a zig-zag, while the salampasu blades are not or, maximum, they have a series of dots that close encircles the depression near the hilt [in mine, and as i can seen, in your blade there isn't this depression]). After all i'm agree on what you say about the several African tribes.
Perhaps the single comparison with salampsu is on the scabbard of my short sword: it has, like the salampasu scabbard, that element in relief that help to hang the scabbard to the sides or on the back.

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2005, 05:40 PM

Hello all, I have seen Mikes Knife with the Yaka style hilt and scabbard but Cameroon style blade labeled as Songye.I think one has to except some cross over of stylistic boundarys.However I agree with Flavio that I to feel it is not Salampasu, which I believe this is.Tim

Freddy · 30th March 2005, 07:13 PM

I'm starting to like this thread. Let's all show our 'strange' knives and swords.

Mike,

The Mbanja throwing knife could be ceremonial if you look at its shape. But I can assure you : all edges are sharp.
It came in a lot with four other throwing knives. All from the same region, but all with a different shape. I guess the other four are more for 'daily' use. I wouldn't like to be in the flight path when these guys are thrown. All are still sharp.

One thing is sure, a throwing knife made to be used always has a plaited or leather handle (sometimes copper banding is also used). Other material would break on impact.
The ones with wooden or even ivory handles are the ceremonial ones.

This is how I found them :

Look at the edges :

One even has some engravings

By the way, Mike : nice throwing knife. Why not throw it at me

Flavio · 31st March 2005, 12:12 AM

Hey guys this thread it's great!! What a gallery of very beautiful pieces!!
And Tim, your salampasu sword it's simple woderfull!! The scabbards is decorated with some shells?

27th March 2005, 11:40 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Great knife, Tim. This is my favourite, a Fang Fa knife from Gabon. Attached Images

29th March 2005, 06:53 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Sweet pieces all. A couple of years ago I bought what I thought was a Yaka short sword and when it arrived, I was somewhat taken aback as the hilt and scabbard atr typically Yakan while the blade is 100% Salampuso. Excuse the photo as the color is considerably off and the rust is long gone......leave it to me to come up with the exception rather than the rule!grin When speaking of age in weapons/artifacts from Central Africa, the Amazon basin and New Guinea I personally feel that one has to take a whole different perspective than with those from other regions as there were so many isolated areas that remained unexplored and with populations that were relatively untouched and uncontaminated until well into the middle of the 20th century......an early 1900's piece from some of these regions is often an equivelent to a late 1700's piece from others in regards to tribal "purity". Mike Attached Images

29th March 2005, 10:28 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	WOW What a surprise, Mike! I have a sword with an identical blade like yours, but, untill now, i never seen others! I thought was congolese, but someone said to me that it maybe comes from Cameroon. Instead there are no doubts it comes from Congo as show the tipical yaka handle and scabbard! But Mike, I don't think that the blade is Salampasu, it's quite different! Attached Images

30th March 2005, 01:42 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I'd hazard a guess that the Ilwoon is actually mid to late 1800's based upon the heavy ridge in the center, with later pieces often much flatter. The Fang Fa sword is absolutely gorgeous drool and Freddy, is your mbanja thrower a user or a ceremonial piece (it looks like the former)as probably 80% of the "throwing knives were actually ceremonial pieces. Flavio, that is a beautiful sword and definitely the same blade, but with a hilt and scabbard style I've not seen before......just great, now I'm back to square one again, but at least not alone this time! LOL! Many don't realize that a lot of tribes were actually quite fluid, moving as alliances were made or broken and with many "tribes" actually part of much larger nations, much like the American plains Indians, the African Zulu nation tribes prior to Chaka or even the Mongols prior to Temujen's unification, to go way back. Here's my latest thrower, a Ngbaka (I believe) user type that ironically was reproduced and mass marketed here in the US about 10 years ago as the "hunga munga"...I wish I'd have kept the US version now more than ever, but alas it was thrown to death!grin Mike Attached Images

30th March 2005, 11:04 AM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Mike, great throwing knife (even if I preferr to call it throwing blade since here in Italy, and maybe also in other countries, the knife is something very different: a blade with only one edge sharp). Anyway, about your yaka short sword, I have said previously that the blade, in my opinoin isn't salampasu, (is for the working of the blade, mine is all hammered in the central part, while the salampasu that are mine are completely smoothed, more the midrib is decorated with a zig-zag, while the salampasu blades are not or, maximum, they have a series of dots that close encircles the depression near the hilt [in mine, and as i can seen, in your blade there isn't this depression]). After all i'm agree on what you say about the several African tribes. Perhaps the single comparison with salampsu is on the scabbard of my short sword: it has, like the salampasu scabbard, that element in relief that help to hang the scabbard to the sides or on the back. Attached Images

30th March 2005, 05:40 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Hello all, I have seen Mikes Knife with the Yaka style hilt and scabbard but Cameroon style blade labeled as Songye.I think one has to except some cross over of stylistic boundarys.However I agree with Flavio that I to feel it is not Salampasu, which I believe this is.Tim Attached Images

30th March 2005, 07:13 PM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice selection of African knives I'm starting to like this thread. Let's all show our 'strange' knives and swords. Mike, The Mbanja throwing knife could be ceremonial if you look at its shape. But I can assure you : all edges are sharp. It came in a lot with four other throwing knives. All from the same region, but all with a different shape. I guess the other four are more for 'daily' use. I wouldn't like to be in the flight path when these guys are thrown. All are still sharp. One thing is sure, a throwing knife made to be used always has a plaited or leather handle (sometimes copper banding is also used). Other material would break on impact. The ones with wooden or even ivory handles are the ceremonial ones. This is how I found them : Look at the edges : One even has some engravings By the way, Mike : nice throwing knife. Why not throw it at me

31st March 2005, 12:12 AM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hey guys this thread it's great!! What a gallery of very beautiful pieces!! And Tim, your salampasu sword it's simple woderfull!! The scabbards is decorated with some shells?