A kuba Nshaal?

Tim Simmons · 27th March 2005, 06:31 PM

Hello Flavio, I would think the best one can say is early 1900s.In some areas of collecting most people would poo poo this sort of age but with a lot of pieces from the Congo I consider this to be a good age.A great many people have no idea how isolated and how impassable the country was up untill the mid 20 century and rapidly becoming so again, rather like the lost tribes of the Amazon jungle of more recent times.I include a post of one of my Congo swords

Freddy · 27th March 2005, 07:26 PM

Nice Kuba sword, Flavio. I think Tim is right concerning the age.

A lot of African weapons were still being produced in the middle of the 20th century. Remember that people used to bring axes and knives back from 'the Congo' when they visited their homeland. This is the case in Belgium.

Most of the African weapons in my collection date from that time.

They 'linger' in the attics until someone discovers them.

When looking at your 'ilwoon', I notice some rust. I would advise you to remove the rust gently. I always use a copper brush fixed to my drill. In this way, the rust is easily removed. Afterwards, I put some oil onto the blade. I usually apply oil used for tools. You'll see, your sword will get its black patina again.

Here's an example :

The first picture shows a Mbanja throwing knife as I bought it. The second one shows the same knife after cleaning

Freddy

Flavio · 27th March 2005, 08:18 PM

Thank you very much guys. Hello Freddy, i think that we know each other on ebay some times ago. The pictures of the ilwoon is before that i clean it. Now the rust is eliminated: I clean up the blades with iron wool and oil.
Hi Tim I have a Yaka sword like yours.

Tim Simmons · 27th March 2005, 08:35 PM

Wonderfull, this is my favourite Knife.To me it sums up all of that 1960s intelligentsia raved about in African art.Tim

Flavio · 27th March 2005, 10:40 PM

Great knife, Tim. This is my favourite, a Fang Fa knife from Gabon.

Conogre · 29th March 2005, 05:53 PM

Sweet pieces all.
A couple of years ago I bought what I thought was a Yaka short sword and when it arrived, I was somewhat taken aback as the hilt and scabbard atr typically Yakan while the blade is 100% Salampuso.
Excuse the photo as the color is considerably off and the rust is long gone......leave it to me to come up with the exception rather than the rule!**grin**

When speaking of age in weapons/artifacts from Central Africa, the Amazon basin and New Guinea I personally feel that one has to take a whole different perspective than with those from other regions as there were so many isolated areas that remained unexplored and with populations that were relatively untouched and uncontaminated until well into the middle of the 20th century......an early 1900's piece from some of these regions is often an equivelent to a late 1700's piece from others in regards to tribal "purity".
Mike

Flavio · 29th March 2005, 09:28 PM

What a surprise, Mike! I have a sword with an identical blade like yours, but, untill now, i never seen others! I thought was congolese, but someone said to me that it maybe comes from Cameroon.
Instead there are no doubts it comes from Congo as show the tipical yaka handle and scabbard! But Mike, I don't think that the blade is Salampasu, it's quite different!

27th March 2005, 06:31 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Hello Flavio, I would think the best one can say is early 1900s.In some areas of collecting most people would poo poo this sort of age but with a lot of pieces from the Congo I consider this to be a good age.A great many people have no idea how isolated and how impassable the country was up untill the mid 20 century and rapidly becoming so again, rather like the lost tribes of the Amazon jungle of more recent times.I include a post of one of my Congo swords Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th March 2005 at 07:01 PM.

27th March 2005, 08:18 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you very much guys. Hello Freddy, i think that we know each other on ebay some times ago. The pictures of the ilwoon is before that i clean it. Now the rust is eliminated: I clean up the blades with iron wool and oil. Hi Tim I have a Yaka sword like yours. Attached Images

27th March 2005, 08:35 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Wonderfull, this is my favourite Knife.To me it sums up all of that 1960s intelligentsia raved about in African art.Tim Attached Images

27th March 2005, 10:40 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Great knife, Tim. This is my favourite, a Fang Fa knife from Gabon. Attached Images

29th March 2005, 05:53 PM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Sweet pieces all. A couple of years ago I bought what I thought was a Yaka short sword and when it arrived, I was somewhat taken aback as the hilt and scabbard atr typically Yakan while the blade is 100% Salampuso. Excuse the photo as the color is considerably off and the rust is long gone......leave it to me to come up with the exception rather than the rule!grin When speaking of age in weapons/artifacts from Central Africa, the Amazon basin and New Guinea I personally feel that one has to take a whole different perspective than with those from other regions as there were so many isolated areas that remained unexplored and with populations that were relatively untouched and uncontaminated until well into the middle of the 20th century......an early 1900's piece from some of these regions is often an equivelent to a late 1700's piece from others in regards to tribal "purity". Mike Attached Images

27th March 2005, 07:26 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice Kuba sword, Flavio. I think Tim is right concerning the age. A lot of African weapons were still being produced in the middle of the 20th century. Remember that people used to bring axes and knives back from 'the Congo' when they visited their homeland. This is the case in Belgium. Most of the African weapons in my collection date from that time. They 'linger' in the attics until someone discovers them. When looking at your 'ilwoon', I notice some rust. I would advise you to remove the rust gently. I always use a copper brush fixed to my drill. In this way, the rust is easily removed. Afterwards, I put some oil onto the blade. I usually apply oil used for tools. You'll see, your sword will get its black patina again. Here's an example : The first picture shows a Mbanja throwing knife as I bought it. The second one shows the same knife after cleaning Freddy

29th March 2005, 09:28 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	WOW What a surprise, Mike! I have a sword with an identical blade like yours, but, untill now, i never seen others! I thought was congolese, but someone said to me that it maybe comes from Cameroon. Instead there are no doubts it comes from Congo as show the tipical yaka handle and scabbard! But Mike, I don't think that the blade is Salampasu, it's quite different! Attached Images