2nd Caucasian Kindjal for comment

[Gavin Nugent]

It has been confirmed as authentic late 19th century piece most definitely and most very possibly earlier, 1860/70s.

The well known antique jeweller and watch maker was too amazed at the craftsmanship and precise handcut relief of this piece. He spent a good deal of time going over the entire piece and stated it to be of outstanding craftsmanship of the highest quality that would have taken a very very long time to complete.

It was also confirmed by another elderly French gentleman whom he referred me and who owns a high end art gallery here in Brisbane. He has an amazing knowledge of antique arms and is also a collector of fine 14th century to very early 19th century European and Japanese arms of which he is giving me the privilege to view for a few hours next Tuesday before his gallery doors open. Quite a joy for me as I will be able to talk to him about other parts of my personal collection other than weaponry. His personal choice does not include weapons post 1820 as his view is that the era past this point was vastly machine made weapons with notable exceptions.

It has been suggested too by this collector that I invest in a UV light. I have not heard of this ever mentioned in this forum anywhere but he seems to think with a good UV light and some time I should be able to see the rubbed script in the cartouche to the rear of the scabbard. It will reveal in more detail, the threads in the scabbard throat and in the hilt which was mistaken for wood too.... and I thought UV was reserved for stamp collectors. A rubbing too will be done of this to see what it reveals.

I will also be returning to the Jeweller that afternoon to have the quality of silver tested for records sake, in the mean time I will soak the collectors sticker off the back as it does so detract further from the beauty.

All the best chaps, feel free to continue with your thoughts and postings on this piece I am intrigued.

regards

Gav

[David]

Congratuations Gav. I am glad that you finally got the "expert" assessment that you have been wanting on this piece. Funny thing about "experts"....if we look long enough we will always be able to find one that will tell us what we want to hear. I am not trying to say that you latest "expert" is not absolutely correct. He may well be. Personally i know nothing about these knives and to me it looks quite nice. But as someone who has spent a lot of time collecting and learning about keris i have discovered that things are not always what they appear to be and sometimes people deliberately create things to deceive. Not necessarily the case here, but always a possibility.
Many of the people on this forum who have taken the time to try to answer your questions about this piece have a great deal of combined knowledge about these knives. Some have made it their specialty. Doesn't mean they are right about your kindjal either, but they didn't have to respond to your post, they have done so with good will in the spirit of collecting and sharing knowledge. You might do youself well not to alienate an entire community of knowledgeable collectors just because you found an expert who told you what you wanted to hear.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

...if we look long enough we will always be able to find one that will tell us what we want to hear ...

So true, David

[Lew]

"The well known antique jeweller and watch maker"

Tell me Gav did you ask this expert how many kindjal has he handled in his career? I have an old gentleman down the street from where I work who is also an expert jeweler and watch maker since 1940 but I don't think he knows much about kindjals? I would not ask a dentist to give me his opinion on my cardiogram I would seek out a cardiologist.

Lew

[fernando]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

"The well known antique jeweller and watch maker"

Tell me Gav did you ask this expert how many kindjal has he handled in his career? I have an old gentleman down the street from where I work who is also an expert jeweler and watch maker since 1940 but I don't think he knows much about kindjals? I would not ask a dentist to give me his opinion on my cardiogram I would seek out a cardiologist.

Lew

When you don't have a dog, you hunt with a cat . On the other hand, a certain person may be able to grade a determined silver work, from simply stamped to thouroughly chased, whereas not necessarily knowing how to grade a kinzhal per se .
... Just my humble opinnion, Lew.
Fernando

[Lew]

Originally Posted by fernando

When you don't have a dog, you hunt with a cat . On the other hand, a certain person may be able to grade a determined silver work, from simply stamped to thouroughly chased, whereas not necessarily knowing how to grade a kinzhal per se .
... Just my humble opinnion, Lew.
Fernando

Fernando

I am sure there are modern silversmiths who do masterful work but you need to look at the object as a whole and not through a jewelers lupe.

Lew