Strange Sumatran/Moro keris? kris? dagger? with a Dutch blade?

Lew · 8th May 2008, 11:00 PM

Bill

That is an interesting kris. Seems like the base comes from a broken Sumatran panjang keris with this top part of the blade being that of a European blade?

Lew

kino · 9th May 2008, 01:12 AM

I saw this Kris last month. It's a beauty. The seller thought it was Moro. It looked Indo/Malaysian to me. Congrats on a good acquisition.

Newsteel · 9th May 2008, 01:34 AM

Congratulation for having one very rare keris. Very strong peninsular Malaysia influence. As VVV mentioned, it has a close resemblance of Sumatran keris panjang/anak alang or bahari at the sosoran and greneng (base) and no kembang kacang. Could it suggest a 'kapit' blade ??? fusing 2 pieces of blade metal??? Very interesting.

Bill M · 9th May 2008, 03:00 AM

Thanks for the compliments!

I wonder about the hole through the blade? Just below the VOC. Could this be the hilt of the original blade where a rivet or some attachment pin came though?

Lew · 9th May 2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Thanks for the compliments!

I wonder about the hole through the blade? Just below the VOC. Could this be the hilt of the original blade where a rivet or some attachment pin came though?

Bill

I'm afraid the hole may have been drilled into the blade for mounting and display purposes

I have an old African sword with a hole in the blade and hilt where some previous owner used it to mount on a wall.

Still a very nice kris Congrats.

Lew

Bill M · 9th May 2008, 03:04 PM

Lew,

This is certainly a possibility and I have seen pieces with holes made for hanging the piece on a wall.

However I am curious about the possibility of it being a rivet hole. I am not familiar with VOC blades, so I would like to pose a few questions for those people who have studied them.

How far from the VOC marking is the hilt, usually?

Is it near the hilt or further up the blade? In some swords, like kaskaras, the markings (crescents) are a distance from the handle.

Most others have them near the handle. This is why I am suggesting that the blade and tang could a major part of the blade we see here.

Why are there numbers and a difference in the blade showing a fuller-like depression below the hole?

This could also indicate the numbered part with the "fuller-like depression is part of the original tang, enclosed by a handle, and is now part of the blade.

No big deal either way. I am just curious.

asomotif · 9th May 2008, 04:49 PM

Congrats Bill !
These pictures are better than the ones you had before.

Also nice to see the size next to a normal sized Moro keris.

The makers of this keris picked only a very small piece of a VOC blade.
VOC swords where not very big/heavy but certainly bigger that what remains within this hybrid keris.

Normally VOC markings are not placed under the tang. So This hole is not a original hole for attaching the hilt.

By the way, this reminds me of a thread by Antonio Cejunior, where he introduced a contemperary Moro / Tanto hybrid knife.
Some forumites where pretty nasty on his creation.

In this case the maker of this odd Sumatra / Moro / VOC mix is not amongst us. That must be the reason of absent criticism. not ?

8th May 2008, 11:00 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill That is an interesting kris. Seems like the base comes from a broken Sumatran panjang keris with this top part of the blade being that of a European blade? Lew

9th May 2008, 01:12 AM	#2
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	I saw this Kris last month. It's a beauty. The seller thought it was Moro. It looked Indo/Malaysian to me. Congrats on a good acquisition.

9th May 2008, 01:34 AM	#3
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Congratulation for having one very rare keris. Very strong peninsular Malaysia influence. As VVV mentioned, it has a close resemblance of Sumatran keris panjang/anak alang or bahari at the sosoran and greneng (base) and no kembang kacang. Could it suggest a 'kapit' blade ??? fusing 2 pieces of blade metal??? Very interesting.

9th May 2008, 03:00 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for the compliments! I wonder about the hole through the blade? Just below the VOC. Could this be the hilt of the original blade where a rivet or some attachment pin came though?

9th May 2008, 03:04 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Lew, This is certainly a possibility and I have seen pieces with holes made for hanging the piece on a wall. However I am curious about the possibility of it being a rivet hole. I am not familiar with VOC blades, so I would like to pose a few questions for those people who have studied them. How far from the VOC marking is the hilt, usually? Is it near the hilt or further up the blade? In some swords, like kaskaras, the markings (crescents) are a distance from the handle. Most others have them near the handle. This is why I am suggesting that the blade and tang could a major part of the blade we see here. Why are there numbers and a difference in the blade showing a fuller-like depression below the hole? This could also indicate the numbered part with the "fuller-like depression is part of the original tang, enclosed by a handle, and is now part of the blade. No big deal either way. I am just curious.

9th May 2008, 04:49 PM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Congrats Bill ! These pictures are better than the ones you had before. Also nice to see the size next to a normal sized Moro keris. The makers of this keris picked only a very small piece of a VOC blade. VOC swords where not very big/heavy but certainly bigger that what remains within this hybrid keris. Normally VOC markings are not placed under the tang. So This hole is not a original hole for attaching the hilt. By the way, this reminds me of a thread by Antonio Cejunior, where he introduced a contemperary Moro / Tanto hybrid knife. Some forumites where pretty nasty on his creation. In this case the maker of this odd Sumatra / Moro / VOC mix is not amongst us. That must be the reason of absent criticism. not ?