An Unusual Ethiopian Short Sword

derek · 24th March 2005, 07:36 PM

Thanks, Tim.
This shotel is my favorite in my collection, Abyssinian design but made in Solingen, hilt is bakelight (top):

This one came from NZ as well, actually, and was supposedly once owned by chess champion Peter Romanovsky.

tom hyle · 25th March 2005, 05:56 AM

How dare you own such lovely swords that I don't!

ha ha!
I note that all the shotels (but one) that have multiple part hilts have a single grip piece and seperate upper and/or lower guards (pommel and handguard), whereas the stacking on the threadstarter is multistacked and insterspaced with metal, more like a billao; much like a billao. Interesting is the way the metal stands above the horn. I've seen quite a bit of this; it seems to be because the horn shrinks with time, while the metal doesn't; I say this because the pieces often seem to have all been shaped together while assembled? Accident or on purpose, I bet it gives a good grip.

Yannis · 25th March 2005, 08:49 AM

Derek and Conogre
Thank you for the fellow feeling. As I said, I don’t know a lot about these swords so I enjoyed the the info and the photos. I am sad because recently I lost the opportunity to get a fine example of them.

Mark · 25th March 2005, 02:43 PM

Here is something sort of out of left field. This sword has a flavor of a koumyya (or jambya I suppose) in the shape of the blade. One possibility is that this is a piece from Eritrea, which was not part of the Ethiopian empire until after WWII, i.e., well after after Menelik's reign. Abyssinia actually refers specifically to Eritrea, though a lot of Eurpeans call the whole place Abyssinia. Nearer the Red Sea the population is mostly Muslim, and there were close contacts with Arabian and Yemeni ports, which would explain both the Arabish look of the pieces, and the drilling of the Ethiopian emperor's face. There was, and still is, a lot of animosity between Eritrea and Ethiopia, as well as between Christian and Muslim groups.

Perhaps another explanation is that the piece is from the reign of Haile Selassie, Menelik's successor, so there might not have been quite the respect for Menelik's image as there might have been while he was on the throne.

Finally, there was a lot of silver in the horn of Africa coming in the form of European coins, particularly so-called Empress Maria Theresa coins from Austria. Thus, there is a lot of silver work from that area and it would not be terribly surprising so see so much silver on a scabbard.

spiral · 25th March 2005, 03:00 PM

What a fascinating collection Derek! Great pieces. very interesting! my tastes are broadening!

Thankyou!

I know the Austrian thalers used on some of the east African pieces are usualy dated 1780 but if they have an x after the date it means they are much more recent restrikes.

But I expect you knew that already!

Spiral

derek · 25th March 2005, 06:51 PM

Tom,

Very good observations -- I definitely see the billao in the grip, as you say.

Mark,

Your points on the history of the region are dead on, there are 101 ways those coins could have found themselves there.

I was looking at this piece as "gurade-like" in general style and that had me focusing on an Amharic-speaking, Abyssinian origin. Maybe that's not the case at all.

Just curious, Spiral: why would they restrike a 1780 coin in quantities? There are many Abyssinian swords that bear this coin on the pommel. I haven't collected coins since I was a kid, is this commonly done?

Yannis,

there are many fine Abyssinian swords to be found all over Italy. It would be an easy trip for you (at least easier than for me). In fact, Czerny's usually has some very good ones on auction.

spiral · 25th March 2005, 07:04 PM

Here is an article about them from a leading UK bullion supplier that may help with thier history Derek.

I have also heard it said by a dealer in coins , that it was liked because it featured a large european woman,with an uncovered face.

Apparently queen Victoria gold soveriegns were popular in some countrys for the same reason..... They were considered "Naughty" in some way.

Have you ever seen a sword with a Thaler that doesnt have the restrike X on it?

Spiral.
.................................................. .........................

The world`s most famous silver coin.
The Empress Maria Theresa (1740-1780)

The 1780 Taler
The silver taler was the currency of the Empire and of the Austrian hereditary lands. The silver taler was very important for trade with the Levant (parts of Turkey, Lebanon, Syria) and the Maria Theresa Taler became the best known and most popular silver coin in the Arabian world. After the death of the Empress, Joseph II permitted the mint at Günzburg (today in Bavaria, but at that time Austrian territory) to continue striking with the 1780 dies in order to meet the demand from the Middle East. The 1780 taler was the only silver coin that the Arabs trusted and would accept. Thus began the long minting history of the "Levantine Taler" of the Empress Maria Theresa. Since then the Günzburg taler has been restruck for trade purposes at Vienna, as well as at mints in Prague, Milan and Venice from time to time. The taler became the unofficial currency of some of the lands in North Africa, and it can still be found today in many Arabian bazaars. This version of the taler became so important that it was restruck even in London, Bombay, Paris and Rome. The "Levantine Taler" lost its status as legal tender in Austria in 1858, but thanks to an imperial edict of 1857 as well as the present laws of the Austrian Republic, the mint at Vienna still produces this famous trade-taler down to the present day.

How Many?
According to Krause, there have been an estimated 800 million Maria Theresa thalers struck since 1780.

Specifications
Diameter 39.5 mm
Silver Content 833.3 / 1000
Copper Content 166.6 / 1000
Total Weight 28.0668 grams
Fine Weight (Actual Silver Content) 23.3890 grams
Fine Weight (Actual Silver Content) 0.7520 ounces

25th March 2005, 03:00 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	What a fascinating collection Derek! Great pieces. very interesting! my tastes are broadening! Thankyou! I know the Austrian thalers used on some of the east African pieces are usualy dated 1780 but if they have an x after the date it means they are much more recent restrikes. But I expect you knew that already! Spiral Last edited by spiral; 25th March 2005 at 06:48 PM.

25th March 2005, 07:04 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Here is an article about them from a leading UK bullion supplier that may help with thier history Derek. I have also heard it said by a dealer in coins , that it was liked because it featured a large european woman,with an uncovered face. Apparently queen Victoria gold soveriegns were popular in some countrys for the same reason..... They were considered "Naughty" in some way. Have you ever seen a sword with a Thaler that doesnt have the restrike X on it? Spiral. .................................................. ......................... The world`s most famous silver coin. The Empress Maria Theresa (1740-1780) The 1780 Taler The silver taler was the currency of the Empire and of the Austrian hereditary lands. The silver taler was very important for trade with the Levant (parts of Turkey, Lebanon, Syria) and the Maria Theresa Taler became the best known and most popular silver coin in the Arabian world. After the death of the Empress, Joseph II permitted the mint at Günzburg (today in Bavaria, but at that time Austrian territory) to continue striking with the 1780 dies in order to meet the demand from the Middle East. The 1780 taler was the only silver coin that the Arabs trusted and would accept. Thus began the long minting history of the "Levantine Taler" of the Empress Maria Theresa. Since then the Günzburg taler has been restruck for trade purposes at Vienna, as well as at mints in Prague, Milan and Venice from time to time. The taler became the unofficial currency of some of the lands in North Africa, and it can still be found today in many Arabian bazaars. This version of the taler became so important that it was restruck even in London, Bombay, Paris and Rome. The "Levantine Taler" lost its status as legal tender in Austria in 1858, but thanks to an imperial edict of 1857 as well as the present laws of the Austrian Republic, the mint at Vienna still produces this famous trade-taler down to the present day. How Many? According to Krause, there have been an estimated 800 million Maria Theresa thalers struck since 1780. Specifications Diameter 39.5 mm Silver Content 833.3 / 1000 Copper Content 166.6 / 1000 Total Weight 28.0668 grams Fine Weight (Actual Silver Content) 23.3890 grams Fine Weight (Actual Silver Content) 0.7520 ounces Last edited by spiral; 25th March 2005 at 10:18 PM.

24th March 2005, 07:36 PM	#1
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Thanks, Tim. This shotel is my favorite in my collection, Abyssinian design but made in Solingen, hilt is bakelight (top): This one came from NZ as well, actually, and was supposedly once owned by chess champion Peter Romanovsky.

25th March 2005, 05:56 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	How dare you own such lovely swords that I don't! ha ha! I note that all the shotels (but one) that have multiple part hilts have a single grip piece and seperate upper and/or lower guards (pommel and handguard), whereas the stacking on the threadstarter is multistacked and insterspaced with metal, more like a billao; much like a billao. Interesting is the way the metal stands above the horn. I've seen quite a bit of this; it seems to be because the horn shrinks with time, while the metal doesn't; I say this because the pieces often seem to have all been shaped together while assembled? Accident or on purpose, I bet it gives a good grip.

25th March 2005, 08:49 AM	#3
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Derek and Conogre Thank you for the fellow feeling. As I said, I don’t know a lot about these swords so I enjoyed the the info and the photos. I am sad because recently I lost the opportunity to get a fine example of them.

25th March 2005, 02:43 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Here is something sort of out of left field. This sword has a flavor of a koumyya (or jambya I suppose) in the shape of the blade. One possibility is that this is a piece from Eritrea, which was not part of the Ethiopian empire until after WWII, i.e., well after after Menelik's reign. Abyssinia actually refers specifically to Eritrea, though a lot of Eurpeans call the whole place Abyssinia. Nearer the Red Sea the population is mostly Muslim, and there were close contacts with Arabian and Yemeni ports, which would explain both the Arabish look of the pieces, and the drilling of the Ethiopian emperor's face. There was, and still is, a lot of animosity between Eritrea and Ethiopia, as well as between Christian and Muslim groups. Perhaps another explanation is that the piece is from the reign of Haile Selassie, Menelik's successor, so there might not have been quite the respect for Menelik's image as there might have been while he was on the throne. Finally, there was a lot of silver in the horn of Africa coming in the form of European coins, particularly so-called Empress Maria Theresa coins from Austria. Thus, there is a lot of silver work from that area and it would not be terribly surprising so see so much silver on a scabbard.

25th March 2005, 06:51 PM	#6
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Tom, Very good observations -- I definitely see the billao in the grip, as you say. Mark, Your points on the history of the region are dead on, there are 101 ways those coins could have found themselves there. I was looking at this piece as "gurade-like" in general style and that had me focusing on an Amharic-speaking, Abyssinian origin. Maybe that's not the case at all. Just curious, Spiral: why would they restrike a 1780 coin in quantities? There are many Abyssinian swords that bear this coin on the pommel. I haven't collected coins since I was a kid, is this commonly done? Yannis, there are many fine Abyssinian swords to be found all over Italy. It would be an easy trip for you (at least easier than for me). In fact, Czerny's usually has some very good ones on auction.