Genoui???

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This 'old Arabian/Persian/Turkish/kindjhal/knife/dagger/sword' ( I love these eloquent and ever so accurate ebay descriptions!!! does appear to be from North Africa, and I agree with Gav, the elaborate decoration does suggest Moorish Spain's traditional 'Boabdil' type motif.
The crescents, and the use of turquoise and corals seem to suggest Ottoman occupied Maghreb, so this elaborate form koummya (?) might be from many places in a wide scope of the North African coast.

This does seem to have some age, and the pierced design in the blade is most interesting, and recalls such affectations in early rapier blades. I have forgotten where I have seen the term 'Genouii' used as Ariel has noted, but it seems it was typically applied to imported European blades in North Africa (most often Italian- hence, Genoa=Genouii), but am not sure if it was used restrictively in any way.
I am of course not suggesting this is in any way a rapier blade only noting the association to them by the piercing.

Best regards,
Jim

My understanding is that the term applies not exclusively to the daggers utilizing European blades but also ( broader!) to daggers with straight, rather than curved blades.
Am I wrong?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

My understanding is that the term applies not exclusively to the daggers utilizing European blades but also ( broader!) to daggers with straight, rather than curved blades.
Am I wrong?

No, I dont think you're wrong Ariel, and what you're saying sounds very familiar, and its driving me nuts trying to remember where I've seen that term. I think it might have been in Buttin's article on the s'boula but I cant locate my copy yet. If my memory serves, the term does apply with reference to the dagger blades, but more to the form than to the blade actually being European.

Best regards,
Jim

[spiral]

poor quality Wire filigree & stone work of dubious "stone" I usauly think of 1950s or more recent when it occors in Nepali or Indian work,{or even Yemini for that matter after most of the Jewish silversmiths left.] is it different in North Africa?

Spiral

[Yannis]

IMHO only the blade is old. The rest is a late 20th century bazaar fitting

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Yannis

IMHO only the blade is old. The rest is a late 20th century bazaar fitting

Yes I think your probably right Yannis.

Spiral

[BerberDagger]

Hi,
I see much of tis dagger, and i ve some on my collection...it is Moroccan ...probably early XX century with more old blade (probably from european sword or bayonet)

[Jim McDougall]

I'm with Yannis, the blade does seem old, and I'm intrigued by that openwork. I'm still puzzled by the term 'genouii'.......can anybody offer any insight to where this term appears in reference to these daggers? I thought perhaps Buttin's work, but no luck there. Then thought possibly 'Alain Jacob's book but don't have access to a copy.

The modern attribution to the mounts seems right too.

[Dom]

on the handle I found a date 1349 --> 1930

but, in my point of view it's the only thing arabic on that assembly
since I'm turning in Maghreb it's the first time I saw a similar dagger

à +

Dom