Another bright idea from the big brains at Ebay

VANDOO · 3rd March 2008, 10:52 PM

PERHAPS EBAY IS INFECTED WITH THE SAME FORM OF GREED THAT MANY OTHER AUCTIONS SEEM TO BE ATE UP WITH THESE DAYS.

I SUSPECT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A AUCTION TO CHARGE THE SELLER 20%OR MORE OF THE SALE PRICE AND PERHAPS A FEE FOR LISTING AND ACCEPTING THE ITEM NOT BEING A SELLER I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHARGES ARE.

BUT BUYERS ARE CHARGED A 18 TO 20.5% BUYERS PREMIUM FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING ALLOWED TO BUY SOMETHING FROM THE AUCTION. QUITE A PROFIT FOR VERY LITTLE WORK AS FAR AS THE BUYERS AND IF THEY TAKE A LARGER BITE FROM THE SELLER (WHO THEY DO SOME ACTUAL WORK FOR) THEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT A POSSIBLE PROFIT FOR THE AUCTION HOUSE OF 4O TO 50% PERHAPS MORE.

WHEN YOU ADD THE PACKING, SHIPPING ECT WHICH AN INCREASING NUMBER OF ONLINE AUCTIONS LEAVE ENTIRELY UP TO THE BUYER TO ARRANGE WITH NO HELP FROM THEM AS WELL AS A STORAGE CHARGE IF YOUR MERCHANDISE IS NOT PICKED UP IN A SHORT TIME.

IT WOULD APPEAR SOME AUCTIONS EXPECT THE SELLERS TO BE HAPPY WITH ABOUT THE SAME RETURN THEY WOULD GET TAKING THEIR ITEMS TO A PAWN SHOP. PENNYS ON THE DOLLAR FOR THE SELLER AND BIG PROFITS FOR THE AUCTION. A SELLER WILL SEE A HIGHER SALE PRICE ON EBAY OR SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES BUT IF MOST OF THE REALIZED PRICE GOES TO THE AUCTION AND YOU END UP WITH WHAT YOU WOULD GET LOCALLY WHY BOTHER WITH THE AUCTION HOUSE?
I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT OR SOLD FROM SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES OR SOLD ON EBAY SO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CHARGES ARE BUT JUDGING FROM BUYERS PREMIUMS BEING SO HIGH I EXPECT THEM TO ALSO BE HIGH.

THE NEXT THING WE KNOW EBAY WILL HAVE A BUYERS PREMIUM AS WELL AS APPROVED SHILL BIDDING.

Rick · 4th March 2008, 12:49 AM

Totally agree with you Barry .

A Seller would do better in our Swap forum .

So would a Buyer .

kahnjar1 · 4th March 2008, 03:13 AM

I can't help thinking that Ebay HAS become a very COMMERCIAL operation and to this extent has lost its way somewhat. The listing fees are in my opinion high and then on top of that there is the so called "success" fee!!
The thing that really leaves me speechless though is the "second chance offer". If one lists an item with a reserve of say $400, it is hardly likely that it will be offered back to the highest bidder at well below the reserve!

We have a VERY successful auction site here in NZ called Trademe (www.trademe.co.nz). Use of this site is restricted to those holding NZ bank accounts, but my point is that although it IS a commercial operation, the charges are sensible, AND you can offer back at YOUR price to bidders/watchers if your item does not reach reserve. Also no sale/no fee rules apply. (Sellers fee is approx 5.9% for general items)
As I write this, there are 69000 people on line with Trademe and there are 1.1 million items for sale. Not bad for a theoretically non international site!!
Check it out--- you can browse without registering.
Regards
Stuart

A. G. Maisey · 4th March 2008, 07:22 AM

I'm not a buyer, nor a seller on ebay, so maybe some people might think I don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I have bought at normal auctions for more than 50 years.

In my opinion, there is really only one way to buy at auction:- you place your value on the thing being sold and leave your bid with the auctioneer. You do not attend the auction, you do not get involved in bidding wars and you do not have any concern at all as to who else may be bidding.

If the item is worth $100, you calculate your bid to take account of any premiums payable, and you leave your bid with the auctioneer. Simple.

You win some, you lose some, and you need to know the value of what you are bidding on, but you never , ever get emotionally involved. Its just business.

To my way of thinking, ebay is no different:- you decide how much you are prepared to pay and you lodge that bid with ebay. If you have lodged a fair market price bid, you have a fair chance of winning.

If you lose, it doesn't matter, because you were never going to pay more than the item was worth to you anyway.

Shill bids?

Shill bids are only made to suck in people who do not know the value of what they are bidding on.

If you are a fair buyer, you can never really lose by paying a fair price.

However, if you regard auctions as a game to be played for amusement, rather than as a form of business, then yes, hiding buyers' identities might seem a bit like spoiling the game. It comes down to the question of whether buying at auction, whether ebay or a normal type of auction, is a business transaction, or entertainment. If its entertainment then you watch the bids, you note who is bidding you get involved and emotional about the whole thing---like a game of football. But if its business, you name your price and forget about the window dressing.

Andrew · 4th March 2008, 01:33 PM

As some of you know, at one time I was a huge fan of eBay. Those days have passed.

I rarely buy or sell on eBay today. When I do, I follow Alan's model and use sniping software to place my bid and walk away.

Lee · 4th March 2008, 02:07 PM

My own view is that ebay got so much so right when it started that it was rewarded with dominance of the online auctions market. It is therefore surprising that they have chosen to demolish some of the most important parts of the foundation they have built upon. But markets have a way of responding, so we may expect in due course to see ebay forfeit its dominance if they do not return from their current downhill path.

Now and then, amid all the junk and fakes, something great does show up on ebay. If I bid, I commit myself to making a single preemptive bid and I make that bid as close as I dare to the cut-off. There will be no second chance if I miss. This strategy gives you your best chance to win the item and to win it at the best possible price.

I suppose one upside to ebay's change is that as we can no longer know if we are bidding against a forum friend, we shall feel less guilt in denying them a bargain. I suppose that is an upside.

While on the subject of auctions, let me share a pet peeve: the buyer's premium. Scum and villainy! It seems pretty clear to me that auctioneers are acting as the seller's agent. Yes, everything does come out of what the buyer pays, but the auctioneers see a psychological advantage is quoting a low seller's premium and then jacking up a buyer's premium. It has even been reported that for big ticket items, major auction houses, to get the consignment, have waived all seller fees and that they have even gone further to 'kick back' some of the buyer's premium. The emergence of buyer's premiums in online autions as a 'tip' to the seller is, in my opinion, reprehensible and thus far I have refrained from participating in such auctions.

4th March 2008, 12:49 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Predatory Practices Totally agree with you Barry . A Seller would do better in our Swap forum . So would a Buyer .

4th March 2008, 03:13 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Getting too greedy I can't help thinking that Ebay HAS become a very COMMERCIAL operation and to this extent has lost its way somewhat. The listing fees are in my opinion high and then on top of that there is the so called "success" fee!! The thing that really leaves me speechless though is the "second chance offer". If one lists an item with a reserve of say $400, it is hardly likely that it will be offered back to the highest bidder at well below the reserve! We have a VERY successful auction site here in NZ called Trademe (www.trademe.co.nz). Use of this site is restricted to those holding NZ bank accounts, but my point is that although it IS a commercial operation, the charges are sensible, AND you can offer back at YOUR price to bidders/watchers if your item does not reach reserve. Also no sale/no fee rules apply. (Sellers fee is approx 5.9% for general items) As I write this, there are 69000 people on line with Trademe and there are 1.1 million items for sale. Not bad for a theoretically non international site!! Check it out--- you can browse without registering. Regards Stuart

4th March 2008, 02:07 PM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Musings on ebay My own view is that ebay got so much so right when it started that it was rewarded with dominance of the online auctions market. It is therefore surprising that they have chosen to demolish some of the most important parts of the foundation they have built upon. But markets have a way of responding, so we may expect in due course to see ebay forfeit its dominance if they do not return from their current downhill path. Now and then, amid all the junk and fakes, something great does show up on ebay. If I bid, I commit myself to making a single preemptive bid and I make that bid as close as I dare to the cut-off. There will be no second chance if I miss. This strategy gives you your best chance to win the item and to win it at the best possible price. I suppose one upside to ebay's change is that as we can no longer know if we are bidding against a forum friend, we shall feel less guilt in denying them a bargain. I suppose that is an upside. While on the subject of auctions, let me share a pet peeve: the buyer's premium. Scum and villainy! It seems pretty clear to me that auctioneers are acting as the seller's agent. Yes, everything does come out of what the buyer pays, but the auctioneers see a psychological advantage is quoting a low seller's premium and then jacking up a buyer's premium. It has even been reported that for big ticket items, major auction houses, to get the consignment, have waived all seller fees and that they have even gone further to 'kick back' some of the buyer's premium. The emergence of buyer's premiums in online autions as a 'tip' to the seller is, in my opinion, reprehensible and thus far I have refrained from participating in such auctions.

3rd March 2008, 10:52 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS EBAY IS INFECTED WITH THE SAME FORM OF GREED THAT MANY OTHER AUCTIONS SEEM TO BE ATE UP WITH THESE DAYS. I SUSPECT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A AUCTION TO CHARGE THE SELLER 20%OR MORE OF THE SALE PRICE AND PERHAPS A FEE FOR LISTING AND ACCEPTING THE ITEM NOT BEING A SELLER I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHARGES ARE. BUT BUYERS ARE CHARGED A 18 TO 20.5% BUYERS PREMIUM FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING ALLOWED TO BUY SOMETHING FROM THE AUCTION. QUITE A PROFIT FOR VERY LITTLE WORK AS FAR AS THE BUYERS AND IF THEY TAKE A LARGER BITE FROM THE SELLER (WHO THEY DO SOME ACTUAL WORK FOR) THEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT A POSSIBLE PROFIT FOR THE AUCTION HOUSE OF 4O TO 50% PERHAPS MORE. WHEN YOU ADD THE PACKING, SHIPPING ECT WHICH AN INCREASING NUMBER OF ONLINE AUCTIONS LEAVE ENTIRELY UP TO THE BUYER TO ARRANGE WITH NO HELP FROM THEM AS WELL AS A STORAGE CHARGE IF YOUR MERCHANDISE IS NOT PICKED UP IN A SHORT TIME. IT WOULD APPEAR SOME AUCTIONS EXPECT THE SELLERS TO BE HAPPY WITH ABOUT THE SAME RETURN THEY WOULD GET TAKING THEIR ITEMS TO A PAWN SHOP. PENNYS ON THE DOLLAR FOR THE SELLER AND BIG PROFITS FOR THE AUCTION. A SELLER WILL SEE A HIGHER SALE PRICE ON EBAY OR SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES BUT IF MOST OF THE REALIZED PRICE GOES TO THE AUCTION AND YOU END UP WITH WHAT YOU WOULD GET LOCALLY WHY BOTHER WITH THE AUCTION HOUSE? I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT OR SOLD FROM SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES OR SOLD ON EBAY SO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CHARGES ARE BUT JUDGING FROM BUYERS PREMIUMS BEING SO HIGH I EXPECT THEM TO ALSO BE HIGH. THE NEXT THING WE KNOW EBAY WILL HAVE A BUYERS PREMIUM AS WELL AS APPROVED SHILL BIDDING.

4th March 2008, 07:22 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I'm not a buyer, nor a seller on ebay, so maybe some people might think I don't know what I'm talking about. However, I have bought at normal auctions for more than 50 years. In my opinion, there is really only one way to buy at auction:- you place your value on the thing being sold and leave your bid with the auctioneer. You do not attend the auction, you do not get involved in bidding wars and you do not have any concern at all as to who else may be bidding. If the item is worth $100, you calculate your bid to take account of any premiums payable, and you leave your bid with the auctioneer. Simple. You win some, you lose some, and you need to know the value of what you are bidding on, but you never , ever get emotionally involved. Its just business. To my way of thinking, ebay is no different:- you decide how much you are prepared to pay and you lodge that bid with ebay. If you have lodged a fair market price bid, you have a fair chance of winning. If you lose, it doesn't matter, because you were never going to pay more than the item was worth to you anyway. Shill bids? Shill bids are only made to suck in people who do not know the value of what they are bidding on. If you are a fair buyer, you can never really lose by paying a fair price. However, if you regard auctions as a game to be played for amusement, rather than as a form of business, then yes, hiding buyers' identities might seem a bit like spoiling the game. It comes down to the question of whether buying at auction, whether ebay or a normal type of auction, is a business transaction, or entertainment. If its entertainment then you watch the bids, you note who is bidding you get involved and emotional about the whole thing---like a game of football. But if its business, you name your price and forget about the window dressing.

4th March 2008, 01:33 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	As some of you know, at one time I was a huge fan of eBay. Those days have passed. I rarely buy or sell on eBay today. When I do, I follow Alan's model and use sniping software to place my bid and walk away.