Island made sword

scratch · 5th February 2008, 06:23 AM

Hello all,
Sorry for resurrecting this dreadful creature, however after a vinegar etch this was the result. I am interested in learning what construction method was used to make this, laminated? I have no idea and would be appreciative of any help received

Kind regards,

Dan

RSWORD · 6th February 2008, 12:59 PM

It would appear that this blade is laminated. I have seen similar "patterns" on barong blades from the Philippines. The real open pattern, I believe, is from minimal folding of the blade.

josh stout · 6th February 2008, 02:51 PM

This is far from my area of knowledge, but is there a chance this could be a Korean piece? My minimal understanding of Japanese blades is that the tang is tilted at an angle to the blade, while Korean pieces will have a tang that follows the blade contour. Also, the tip is a much more common shape in Korean swords than in Japanese swords which usually show separate faceting. I would suggest a close look at the Korean stuff in "History of Steel" for more similarities.

Vietnamese sabers also copied the Japanese look, and had crude Japanese style guards like the one shown, but the hilt would be completely different, so I will stick with my Korean guess.
Josh

Ferguson · 6th February 2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

It would appear that this blade is laminated. I have seen similar "patterns" on barong blades from the Philippines. The real open pattern, I believe, is from minimal folding of the blade.

Rick, you're the man when it comes to wootz and pattern welded steel. Let me throw out another possibility. My first time etching a blade looked like that. I didn't degrease it properly and the vinegar beaded up. Could that be what we're seeing? I found that cleaning the blade with acetone or alcohol prior to etching, and adding a drop of dishwashing liquid to the vinegar caused the vinegar to wet the blade better.

I could be way off though, and that could be the actual pattern in the steel.

Steve

kai · 6th February 2008, 07:30 PM

Hello Dan,

I'm with Steve here and also believe that this pattern might be a staining artifact...

Degreasing is paramount and being generous with the etchant (or submersing the whole blade) also helps to reveal real patterns.

Regards,
Kai

TVV · 6th February 2008, 07:55 PM

I have seen this effect as well, and interestingly enough, it was on a barong blade. I etched the blade a few times, and each time a got a pattern that looked like this, but always in a different way, which was enough to convince that I was not etching properly. My initial reaction when I saw the pictures was the same as Steve's, but I just wanted to see what other members had to say.
Regards,
Teodor

RSWORD · 6th February 2008, 11:33 PM

You guys bring up a good point and this could be what we are seeing especially given the length of blade. However, in my experience, a blade with an active pattern usually "pops" fairly quickly and it is the blades with minimal folding that need much more coaxing to bring out what pattern, if any, is there. Steve, your suggestions are a great way to make sure it is being soaked properly. Another beneficial method would be to do multiple vinegar soaks and in between after a good rinse and wipe off to give the blade a good once over with a very fine grit paper, and then repeat process over.

scratch · 7th February 2008, 12:17 AM

Hello Gentlemen,
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and collections

I did degrease this piece with white spirits, however I was called away for about 30 mins during etching process so it is possible that the etch is dodgy. I have tried to remove etch with vigorous rubbing with 0000 wool, I can't remove it. Should I use 2000 grit paper and etch again? I have included pics of an earlier etch using lime juice. Perhaps I should consign this to the unkown sword category? I do believe that this item is not monosteel but am open to correction. It is not of Japanese origin as has been established earlier. Thank you again for taking the time to express your thoughts on a piece that has little value on this forum

Kind regards

Dan

josh stout · 7th February 2008, 05:12 AM

That one looks better. I still see some etching artifacts though. I like to take 4000 grit paper to a blade after etching. It gets rid of stains quickly but leaves an understated pattern behind.
Josh

5th February 2008, 06:23 AM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Hello all, Sorry for resurrecting this dreadful creature, however after a vinegar etch this was the result. I am interested in learning what construction method was used to make this, laminated? I have no idea and would be appreciative of any help received Kind regards, Dan Attached Images

7th February 2008, 12:17 AM	#8
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Hello Gentlemen, Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and collections I did degrease this piece with white spirits, however I was called away for about 30 mins during etching process so it is possible that the etch is dodgy. I have tried to remove etch with vigorous rubbing with 0000 wool, I can't remove it. Should I use 2000 grit paper and etch again? I have included pics of an earlier etch using lime juice. Perhaps I should consign this to the unkown sword category? I do believe that this item is not monosteel but am open to correction. It is not of Japanese origin as has been established earlier. Thank you again for taking the time to express your thoughts on a piece that has little value on this forum Kind regards Dan Attached Images

6th February 2008, 12:59 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	It would appear that this blade is laminated. I have seen similar "patterns" on barong blades from the Philippines. The real open pattern, I believe, is from minimal folding of the blade.

6th February 2008, 02:51 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	This is far from my area of knowledge, but is there a chance this could be a Korean piece? My minimal understanding of Japanese blades is that the tang is tilted at an angle to the blade, while Korean pieces will have a tang that follows the blade contour. Also, the tip is a much more common shape in Korean swords than in Japanese swords which usually show separate faceting. I would suggest a close look at the Korean stuff in "History of Steel" for more similarities. Vietnamese sabers also copied the Japanese look, and had crude Japanese style guards like the one shown, but the hilt would be completely different, so I will stick with my Korean guess. Josh

6th February 2008, 07:30 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Dan, I'm with Steve here and also believe that this pattern might be a staining artifact... Degreasing is paramount and being generous with the etchant (or submersing the whole blade) also helps to reveal real patterns. Regards, Kai

6th February 2008, 07:55 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	I have seen this effect as well, and interestingly enough, it was on a barong blade. I etched the blade a few times, and each time a got a pattern that looked like this, but always in a different way, which was enough to convince that I was not etching properly. My initial reaction when I saw the pictures was the same as Steve's, but I just wanted to see what other members had to say. Regards, Teodor

6th February 2008, 11:33 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	You guys bring up a good point and this could be what we are seeing especially given the length of blade. However, in my experience, a blade with an active pattern usually "pops" fairly quickly and it is the blades with minimal folding that need much more coaxing to bring out what pattern, if any, is there. Steve, your suggestions are a great way to make sure it is being soaked properly. Another beneficial method would be to do multiple vinegar soaks and in between after a good rinse and wipe off to give the blade a good once over with a very fine grit paper, and then repeat process over.

7th February 2008, 05:12 AM	#9
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That one looks better. I still see some etching artifacts though. I like to take 4000 grit paper to a blade after etching. It gets rid of stains quickly but leaves an understated pattern behind. Josh