Moro Kris

kronckew · 23rd January 2008, 10:39 PM

i found another one with the same placement

good, i'd rather have a battle one than a show one anyway. that datu one above with the fancy ivory looks rather fragile.

Battara · 23rd January 2008, 10:46 PM

Only because he is old and probably survived many battles. It could also be a certain type of kris. I have never seen the cockatua hilted ones looking backward, only forward, and some were battle pieces.

kronckew · 23rd January 2008, 10:59 PM

i meant the hilt looked fragile, not the datu, he looks like he's not someone we'd like to mess with. i'd believe the krag and the ivory hilted .38 were his war souvenirs....

in university my fencing instructor was a little old 70 year old man about 5 ft 2in. tall and maybe 120 pounds. he was also the toughest person i've seen. he was also an ex hungarian army colonel and i gather he was a national sabre champion back in the thirties...you did not mess with him, he was always two steps ahead of you.

Battara · 24th January 2008, 01:21 AM

OH.......boy did I misunderstand....

...

Yes that hilt is a little more fragile since it is ceremonial. His battle kris would not sport such a large ivory head. They always had several kris, at least one for ceremonial purposes and one for combat.

My Filipino grandfather sounds like he would be at home with those folk upon which you spoke. He was a tough "old bird" and an escrimador as well as being a retired cop.

RobT · 24th January 2008, 01:31 AM

Hi All,
Could the difference in carry styles be the result of Japanese influence? The two older photos look to be pre WWII while the newer photo looks like it could be post WWII. If that's true, the iado draw style (along with the necessary sheath carry change) could have been picked up from the Japanese invaders.
Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 24th January 2008, 01:43 AM

Not a bad idea except that the second old photo has the kris facing "backwards" like the one in the new photo.

kai · 24th January 2008, 07:36 AM

The edge-up carry mode (most are single-edged swords) is also pretty common throughout the Southeast Asian archipelagos.

The vast majority of early Moro pics also shows this orientation which is also confirmed by scabbard decorations or the carry notch on Maguindanao style scabbards.

Regards,
Kai

VANDOO · 24th January 2008, 05:09 PM

AS MOST PICTURES YOU SEE ARE POSED IT MAY BE THEY SOMETIMES CARRY THEIR KRIS AND OTHER WEAPONS DIFFERENT DUE TO THE REGUEST OF THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S VIEW OF HOW TO MAKE A GOOD PHOTO.

THE OLD WARRIOR HAS TWO BANDOLERS AND A KRIS THAT WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE HIS FIRST CHOICE FOR ACTUAL BATTLE EVEN IF IT IS HIS MOST CHERISHED POSSESION AND AN INDICATION OF HIS STATUS AS A WARRIOR AND DATU. WITH SO MUCH EQUIPMENT AND SUCH A LARGE IVORY POMMEL ADJUSTMENTS WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER WOULD LIKE EVERYTHING TO SHOW IN THE PICTURE AND THE OLD DATU WOULD SURELY WANT HIS BEST KRIS IN THE PICTURE. OF COURSE A DATU WITH A RIFLE COULD STAY BACK AND SHOOT THE ENEMY WHILE HIS MEN ENGAGED THE ENEMY AT CLOSE QUARTERS SO HE COULD TAKE HIS DATU KRIS IF HE WANTED.
IN THE OLD DAYS THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO FIREARMS JUST A SHIELD, SPEAR AND SWORD OF SOME FORM AND THE WARRIORS WHO HAD NOT YET CAPTURED OR TRADED FOR A FIREARM WERE PROBABLY STILL ARMED IN THE OLD WAY EVEN AGAINST FIREARMS. NEAT PICTURES

AND CONGRADULATIONS ON YOUR FIRST KRIS.

24th January 2008, 01:31 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 566	Pre & Post WWII draw? Hi All, Could the difference in carry styles be the result of Japanese influence? The two older photos look to be pre WWII while the newer photo looks like it could be post WWII. If that's true, the iado draw style (along with the necessary sheath carry change) could have been picked up from the Japanese invaders. Sincerely, RobT

23rd January 2008, 10:39 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	i found another one with the same placement good, i'd rather have a battle one than a show one anyway. that datu one above with the fancy ivory looks rather fragile.

23rd January 2008, 10:46 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,325	Only because he is old and probably survived many battles. It could also be a certain type of kris. I have never seen the cockatua hilted ones looking backward, only forward, and some were battle pieces.

23rd January 2008, 10:59 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	i meant the hilt looked fragile, not the datu, he looks like he's not someone we'd like to mess with. i'd believe the krag and the ivory hilted .38 were his war souvenirs.... in university my fencing instructor was a little old 70 year old man about 5 ft 2in. tall and maybe 120 pounds. he was also the toughest person i've seen. he was also an ex hungarian army colonel and i gather he was a national sabre champion back in the thirties...you did not mess with him, he was always two steps ahead of you.

24th January 2008, 01:21 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,325	OH.......boy did I misunderstand.... ... Yes that hilt is a little more fragile since it is ceremonial. His battle kris would not sport such a large ivory head. They always had several kris, at least one for ceremonial purposes and one for combat. My Filipino grandfather sounds like he would be at home with those folk upon which you spoke. He was a tough "old bird" and an escrimador as well as being a retired cop.

24th January 2008, 01:43 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,325	Not a bad idea except that the second old photo has the kris facing "backwards" like the one in the new photo.

24th January 2008, 07:36 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	The edge-up carry mode (most are single-edged swords) is also pretty common throughout the Southeast Asian archipelagos. The vast majority of early Moro pics also shows this orientation which is also confirmed by scabbard decorations or the carry notch on Maguindanao style scabbards. Regards, Kai

24th January 2008, 05:09 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AS MOST PICTURES YOU SEE ARE POSED IT MAY BE THEY SOMETIMES CARRY THEIR KRIS AND OTHER WEAPONS DIFFERENT DUE TO THE REGUEST OF THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S VIEW OF HOW TO MAKE A GOOD PHOTO. THE OLD WARRIOR HAS TWO BANDOLERS AND A KRIS THAT WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE HIS FIRST CHOICE FOR ACTUAL BATTLE EVEN IF IT IS HIS MOST CHERISHED POSSESION AND AN INDICATION OF HIS STATUS AS A WARRIOR AND DATU. WITH SO MUCH EQUIPMENT AND SUCH A LARGE IVORY POMMEL ADJUSTMENTS WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER WOULD LIKE EVERYTHING TO SHOW IN THE PICTURE AND THE OLD DATU WOULD SURELY WANT HIS BEST KRIS IN THE PICTURE. OF COURSE A DATU WITH A RIFLE COULD STAY BACK AND SHOOT THE ENEMY WHILE HIS MEN ENGAGED THE ENEMY AT CLOSE QUARTERS SO HE COULD TAKE HIS DATU KRIS IF HE WANTED. IN THE OLD DAYS THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO FIREARMS JUST A SHIELD, SPEAR AND SWORD OF SOME FORM AND THE WARRIORS WHO HAD NOT YET CAPTURED OR TRADED FOR A FIREARM WERE PROBABLY STILL ARMED IN THE OLD WAY EVEN AGAINST FIREARMS. NEAT PICTURES AND CONGRADULATIONS ON YOUR FIRST KRIS.