coments on this...a help

Henk · 16th January 2008, 04:47 PM

Alan,

You're completely right about the gayaman wrongko. The gayaman style originates from many places indeed with minor variations. I do remember the thread about the maduran wrongko's.
When I look at the last picture of the scabbard on the place where the wrongko changes into the gandar I see a line and discolloring. Same for the picture of the frontside of the wrongko. Also there I think to see a discolloring. That gave me the idea of a missing pendok. But I could be mistaken by the light in the picture.

Classifying a blade to a tangguh is the most difficult thing to do. I also prefer not to make such statements.

Emanuel,

A false Pelet is made with paint or a kind of ink. I'm not quite sure what is used for it. I do own a keris of which the scabbard is also painted in Pelet. On both sides

When I cleaned the scabbard with wax remover to remove the dirt and old wax layers the cloth colored in the color of the Pelet spots. Using a clean cloth and rubbing over the wood nothing happened, rubbing over the pellet spot the cloth picked up the color of the Pelet.

A. G. Maisey · 16th January 2008, 09:41 PM

Henk, I can see the discolouration on the back of wrongko too, but in my experience, this is not consistent with the previous fitting of a pendok. When a pendok is fitted the gandar is left as raw timber, and very often finished to a very crude standard; it is advantageous for a gandar fitted with a pendok to be a bit rough, because it helps to retain the pendok; additionally the tip of the gandar is often left square, or open, it is rarely finished to a smooth curve; often the transition from gandar to atasan is less than neat. This keris has a fully finished, and perfectly shaped gandar, which bears a finish showing about the same degree of patina as the atasan, the transition from gandar to atasan would have been neat when this wrongko was made. In brief, the gandar simply has not been made in the way that a gandar to be fitted with a pendok is made. Yes, at some time somebody might have thought that it would look better with a pendok, but it is never possible just to pick up a pendok and push it onto the gandar, it needs to be fitted, and that fitting removes wood.

There are several possibilities for the discolouration:- the gandar has been reglued and the discolouration was caused by the cleanup; the keris has been suspended by a cloth loop or similar for a lengthy period; at some point in its life the wrongko joint was covered with a cloth or a metal band.

Regarding false pelet. I do not know what is used to create the stain, however it was very widely used in both Jawa and Bali, and sometimes it is so good that it is almost impossible to detect.

Henk · 17th January 2008, 08:05 PM

Alan,

Thank you for your explanation.
Looking a little bit further I have to agree with you. The gandar is in a good condition and the scabbard on the backside has a matching patina between gandar and wrongko.
Probably the discolouration is a result of one of the possibilities you mentioned.

ferrylaki · 18th January 2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Alan,

Thank you for your explanation.
Looking a little bit further I have to agree with you. The gandar is in a good condition and the scabbard on the backside has a matching patina between gandar and wrongko.
Probably the discolouration is a result of one of the possibilities you mentioned.

The pelet motive on the gayaman seem too bright, pelet motive usually comes darker. I also agree about the gandar is a match with the gayaman.
thia is an example of my old timoho gayaman. the motive is not a favorite one, but still nice though. a very dark pelet timoho.
Some friends told me it is a east java gayaman style.

I've seen some modification on pelet motive. mostly they were found on " pelet kendhit" ( belt pattern pelet) in order to make the pattern they some kind of put something hot on the gayaman ( wood) the burnt wood left a dark
pattern...they made a circular ( horizontal) pattern around the gayaman, and a pelet kendit it is. but unfortunately I dont have the picture of the fake pelet kendhit.

FERRY

Marcokeris · 18th January 2008, 12:05 PM

Could the two sarong be from Madura area?

Emanuel · 18th January 2008, 11:46 PM

Thanks Henk and Ferry for the explanation. I had not seen this done before.

Emanuel

blacklacrau · 22nd January 2008, 10:36 AM

This type of hilt is not very usual? I do not remember to have seen images like this one...
Thanks

16th January 2008, 04:47 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Alan, You're completely right about the gayaman wrongko. The gayaman style originates from many places indeed with minor variations. I do remember the thread about the maduran wrongko's. When I look at the last picture of the scabbard on the place where the wrongko changes into the gandar I see a line and discolloring. Same for the picture of the frontside of the wrongko. Also there I think to see a discolloring. That gave me the idea of a missing pendok. But I could be mistaken by the light in the picture. Classifying a blade to a tangguh is the most difficult thing to do. I also prefer not to make such statements. Emanuel, A false Pelet is made with paint or a kind of ink. I'm not quite sure what is used for it. I do own a keris of which the scabbard is also painted in Pelet. On both sides When I cleaned the scabbard with wax remover to remove the dirt and old wax layers the cloth colored in the color of the Pelet spots. Using a clean cloth and rubbing over the wood nothing happened, rubbing over the pellet spot the cloth picked up the color of the Pelet.

16th January 2008, 09:41 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Henk, I can see the discolouration on the back of wrongko too, but in my experience, this is not consistent with the previous fitting of a pendok. When a pendok is fitted the gandar is left as raw timber, and very often finished to a very crude standard; it is advantageous for a gandar fitted with a pendok to be a bit rough, because it helps to retain the pendok; additionally the tip of the gandar is often left square, or open, it is rarely finished to a smooth curve; often the transition from gandar to atasan is less than neat. This keris has a fully finished, and perfectly shaped gandar, which bears a finish showing about the same degree of patina as the atasan, the transition from gandar to atasan would have been neat when this wrongko was made. In brief, the gandar simply has not been made in the way that a gandar to be fitted with a pendok is made. Yes, at some time somebody might have thought that it would look better with a pendok, but it is never possible just to pick up a pendok and push it onto the gandar, it needs to be fitted, and that fitting removes wood. There are several possibilities for the discolouration:- the gandar has been reglued and the discolouration was caused by the cleanup; the keris has been suspended by a cloth loop or similar for a lengthy period; at some point in its life the wrongko joint was covered with a cloth or a metal band. Regarding false pelet. I do not know what is used to create the stain, however it was very widely used in both Jawa and Bali, and sometimes it is so good that it is almost impossible to detect.

17th January 2008, 08:05 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Alan, Thank you for your explanation. Looking a little bit further I have to agree with you. The gandar is in a good condition and the scabbard on the backside has a matching patina between gandar and wrongko. Probably the discolouration is a result of one of the possibilities you mentioned.

18th January 2008, 12:05 PM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Could the two sarong be from Madura area?

18th January 2008, 11:46 PM	#6
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks Henk and Ferry for the explanation. I had not seen this done before. Emanuel

22nd January 2008, 10:36 AM	#7
blacklacrau Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portugal Posts: 50	This type of hilt is not very usual? I do not remember to have seen images like this one... Thanks