genuine of fake?

[Norman McCormick]

You really have to handle an item to be as sure as you can be that it is correct and even then the best can still be taken in, but items that have been made to actually be used as a tool and not just looked at or hung on a wall e.g. swords, daggers etc., have a different feel about them no matter which part of the world they come from. I do occasionally buy weaponry from e-bay but never pay any more than can be written off as an affordable mistake, except once and only after communicating with the seller a number of times and requesting more detailed photographs, and this affordable amount obviously varies from person to person. Buyer Beware is an old and oft quoted saying but still true nonetheless.
Regards,
Norman.

[Tim Simmons]

In a tooth and claw open market why are these people being strung up. Just because you are rich and buy a fake or dud why should you be protected by the law? They made this stuff in there garden shed??? All that bollocks education and posh art market nonesence leveled by a couple of rough necks.

[A. G. Maisey]

Tim, I was not writing of myself, but a very famous fellow who is now a Javanese Prince and has been a directive force in Indonesian society since the days of Sukarno. A very, very important, knowledgeable and influential man. Not a nonentity like myself.

But yes, I have made errors. These days, very, very few, in fact, I cannot recall any recent material errors at all, but going back 40 years and more I made quite a few. In light of my knowledge at that time, none were avoidable, I only had experience in the keris in the Australian environment until I was well into my twenties,and this was not enough back prior to the increased flow of information generated by the internet and all the new publications.

I have always thought of these errors, and the costs involved in learning about the keris, as education expenses. How much does a degree cost ? How much does it cost to put a kid through primary school? All education costs money. You pay the tuition costs and move on. If I add up what it has cost me to learn about keris, I could probably have paid for several post graduate degrees. At least.

But the bottom line is that I can still make a mistake.

This realisation is probably the most important single thing I have learnt.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

You really have to handle an item to be as sure as you can be that it is correct and even then the best can still be taken in, but items that have been made to actually be used as a tool and not just looked at or hung on a wall e.g. swords, daggers etc., have a different feel about them no matter which part of the world they come from. I do occasionally buy weaponry from e-bay but never pay any more than can be written off as an affordable mistake, except once and only after communicating with the seller a number of times and requesting more detailed photographs, and this affordable amount obviously varies from person to person. Buyer Beware is an old and oft quoted saying but still true nonetheless.
Regards,
Norman.

I definately agree with the above statement. Even then, one CAN be taken in, but...an old collector friend of mine has a great saying "If it does not look or feel right, then it probably isn't!"
I once had the misfortune of buying 5 Yemeni daggers in one lot off Ebay, only to find that when they arrived they were ALL fakes! The "silver" bands were actually tin, still stamped on the reverse side with the brand of product which they originally held! LUCKILY in this case I managed to extract a refund from the seller, BUT had I not, it is a very long way from NZ to Dubai to bang on someones door!!
The buyer definately has to be really careful and if you can not obtain satisfactory answers from the seller, AND the pics are unclear, then no matter how cheap you think you are getting an item, it is better to leave it alone! DO NOT ALWAYS BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ AS AN ITEM DESCRIPTION. IT IS HUMAN NATURE TO EMBELISH DESCRIPTIONS TO EXTRACT HIGH PRICES!
Stuart

[pinoy]

p

[ariel]

No matter how smart, experienced and careful we are, there will always be a forger able to fool us.
Collecting is a passion, and reason is always put on a back burner when passion is concerned ( divorce lawyers make a very nice living ).
We always dream about finding a "sleeper", and these happen just often enough to whet our appetites for yet another adventure .
No pain, no gain. I once got in a frantic e-bay negotiation with some guy selling a seemingly ugly kindjal. Got it for a sum that made him exceedingly happy. Well, it is mine, and it is something that rightfully belongs in the main collection of the Hermitage. Of course, my next adventure was less successful, to put it mildly
What are the main reasons for our failures?
- Smart seller/good forger/just a criminal ( as we speak, one very successful e-bayer fell victim to a sting; I'll post details a bit later)
- Greed ( yup, we are only humans...)
- Careless abandon of reason ( ditto)
- Self-indulgence ( " I am miserable and need a candy"
Education and self-restraint are very important in preventing most of stupid mistakes, but a risk-averse collector will end up with a bunch of boring, run-of-the-mill and cheap things.

After all, people who once actually wielded the very same swords we are currently buying took infinitely greater risks.

Addendum: as promised, here are the details:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=006
About year and a half ago, there was a similar "collection" of unbelievably good Ottoman and Indian swords offered by a seller from the Ukraine. He re-listed each sword ~1 week after sale (enough time for bank transfer), and sold each one 3 times! Needless to say, he got negative feedbacks from his "marks". Currently, he also has a great shamshir for sale, private auction. The seller's names used were all inactive for several years and had very good feedbacks.
Who is willing to bet that the buyer of this Tulwar is going to get it in the mail?
And, of course, e-bay made it impossible to contact the buyer and warn him.