Origins of Gorda/Gurda

TVV · 6th January 2008, 06:18 AM

Askhabov's teories are interesting and quite entertaining, but I am afraid that just like Ariel I am somewhat sceptic. From blessed shield to screaming monkey, I am not sure anyone knows what the true meaning of ters maymal was.

Marc · 6th January 2008, 01:38 PM

To be sincere, for my experience, Ariel's hypothesis holds far more water than any of the others. First of all, it's well-formulated, uses the data available and works with factors known to have had similar influences in other fields (names given to import products based in those they had in their place of origin. It happens even today). Theories regarding "names" or "marks" on weapons have an undeniable tendency to fall in the direction of what any bazaar seller would instantly recognize as "the coolness factor". You know how this goes, any notch on the handle of a Colt Army must be a man gone down, never a sign of mistreatment. I also tend to be quite sceptic about these stories, and although some of them are true, these tend to be not only somewhat obvious but normally they're also verifiable via some independent sources.

Also, the kind of explanation Ariel's putting forth is also mirrored in other similar cases, like the Canary Islands knife "naife" or the Filipino "punal".

Jim McDougall · 6th January 2008, 07:03 PM

Exactly right Marc! The lore of weapons is rich with vernacular terms that have become associated with particular weapon forms, and it often becomes difficult to separate them even when facts are discovered that contradict the established use.
The nim'cha term applied to full length swords, the term claymore used to describe Scottish basket hilts, the term katar used to describe what is properly termed jemadhar, etc.etc. Most are typically transliteration and semantics, and in many cases writers and adventurers embellished thier work with colorful stories about the weapons.
The note on the notches on the handles of guns is coincidentally something I had just noted on the thread on the marking of weapons, and of course in reality, gunfighters did not place notches on their gun grips.

As has been noted, the lore is great for entertainment, but for our purposes often confounding.

All very best regards,
Jim

S.Al-Anizi · 8th January 2008, 01:46 AM

Hi All!

Interesting topic. Strange thing is that this word has also been passed to Arabic, specifically the Nejdi dialect, in which it is used to name a straight bladed sword, Gurda.

ariel · 8th January 2008, 04:53 PM

That's interesting!
original Arabian sword were straight, as everybody knows.
So, here are my questions:
- Is this name recent ? How old?
-does Gurda refer to a specific straight sword or to the class in general?
- Any other characteristics ( markings?) of Gurda?
-Any connection with European blades?

ariel · 9th February 2008, 07:06 PM

Yet another tantalizing hint: Elgood mentions Burton's note of Western Arabian swords with European blades called Majar ( Hungarian).

Kiziria · 17th February 2008, 10:38 PM

Hello gentlmen!
Allow me to introduce myself and join this disscusion!
To trace the origin of so called "GURDA" or "GORDA" is truly difficult , since there so many convinsing theories.
I could add though, that highlanders of Eastern Georgia, Caucasus usually have few legendary tales to tell when asked about origin of GORDA. Some attributed to local master Gorda, some to secret recepy of alloy, some to swords of a European crusaders, and few more.
It seems to me, the fact that arabian dialect has a similar word for "straight sword" only adds to mystery. And good one theory too, because as we well know many arabic words found its place among Caucasian and European languages.

ariel · 19th February 2008, 02:34 AM

Another Forum is having a thread initiated by a Caucasian buff (

); the gist is that the origin of Caucasian blades locally dubbed " David Peruli" ( or, as some sources call it, "davitperuli") both sounding rather "Georgian", is in fact a mispronounciation of David Ferrara, an Italian master whose blades were popular in the area in the 17-18th centuries.
Another example of Korda/Gorda?

6th January 2008, 06:18 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Askhabov's teories are interesting and quite entertaining, but I am afraid that just like Ariel I am somewhat sceptic. From blessed shield to screaming monkey, I am not sure anyone knows what the true meaning of ters maymal was.

6th January 2008, 01:38 PM	#2
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	To be sincere, for my experience, Ariel's hypothesis holds far more water than any of the others. First of all, it's well-formulated, uses the data available and works with factors known to have had similar influences in other fields (names given to import products based in those they had in their place of origin. It happens even today). Theories regarding "names" or "marks" on weapons have an undeniable tendency to fall in the direction of what any bazaar seller would instantly recognize as "the coolness factor". You know how this goes, any notch on the handle of a Colt Army must be a man gone down, never a sign of mistreatment. I also tend to be quite sceptic about these stories, and although some of them are true, these tend to be not only somewhat obvious but normally they're also verifiable via some independent sources. Also, the kind of explanation Ariel's putting forth is also mirrored in other similar cases, like the Canary Islands knife "naife" or the Filipino "punal".

6th January 2008, 07:03 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Exactly right Marc! The lore of weapons is rich with vernacular terms that have become associated with particular weapon forms, and it often becomes difficult to separate them even when facts are discovered that contradict the established use. The nim'cha term applied to full length swords, the term claymore used to describe Scottish basket hilts, the term katar used to describe what is properly termed jemadhar, etc.etc. Most are typically transliteration and semantics, and in many cases writers and adventurers embellished thier work with colorful stories about the weapons. The note on the notches on the handles of guns is coincidentally something I had just noted on the thread on the marking of weapons, and of course in reality, gunfighters did not place notches on their gun grips. As has been noted, the lore is great for entertainment, but for our purposes often confounding. All very best regards, Jim

8th January 2008, 01:46 AM	#4
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Hi All! Interesting topic. Strange thing is that this word has also been passed to Arabic, specifically the Nejdi dialect, in which it is used to name a straight bladed sword, Gurda.

8th January 2008, 04:53 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That's interesting! original Arabian sword were straight, as everybody knows. So, here are my questions: - Is this name recent ? How old? -does Gurda refer to a specific straight sword or to the class in general? - Any other characteristics ( markings?) of Gurda? -Any connection with European blades?

9th February 2008, 07:06 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yet another tantalizing hint: Elgood mentions Burton's note of Western Arabian swords with European blades called Majar ( Hungarian).

17th February 2008, 10:38 PM	#7
Kiziria Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 26	Hello gentlmen! Allow me to introduce myself and join this disscusion! To trace the origin of so called "GURDA" or "GORDA" is truly difficult , since there so many convinsing theories. I could add though, that highlanders of Eastern Georgia, Caucasus usually have few legendary tales to tell when asked about origin of GORDA. Some attributed to local master Gorda, some to secret recepy of alloy, some to swords of a European crusaders, and few more. It seems to me, the fact that arabian dialect has a similar word for "straight sword" only adds to mystery. And good one theory too, because as we well know many arabic words found its place among Caucasian and European languages.

19th February 2008, 02:34 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Another Forum is having a thread initiated by a Caucasian buff ( ); the gist is that the origin of Caucasian blades locally dubbed " David Peruli" ( or, as some sources call it, "davitperuli") both sounding rather "Georgian", is in fact a mispronounciation of David Ferrara, an Italian master whose blades were popular in the area in the 17-18th centuries. Another example of Korda/Gorda?