PSYCHOLOGICAL WEAPONS

VANDOO · 3rd January 2008, 04:35 AM

MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE MAORI WOULD DO A HAKA WHEN VISITORS APPROACHED THEIR VILLAGE AND THEN END IT WITH A GREETING WHICH IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY WAS TO RUB NOSES. BOTH GROUPS PREFORMED THEIR HAKAS AND TAUNTED AND INSULTED THE OTHER SIDE BEFORE THE FIGHT BEGAN. THE TAUNTING IS COMMON IN MANY TRIBES THERE ARE SOME GOOD FILMS OF IT FROM NEW GUINEA AS THIS KIND OF WARFARE HAS HAPPENED VERY RECENTLY AND MAY STILL OCCUR AMOUNG SOME GROUPS. THE FILM BRAVEHEART SHOWS THE SCOTTS TAUNTING THEIR ENEMYS QUITE WELL. SOME OF THE PACIFIC CLUBS ARE VERY PALLIC IN NATURE AND ARE WAVED AROUND IN A VERY INSULTING MANNER WITH X RATED TAUNTS NO DOUBT. SOME OF THE GUNSTOCK VARIETYS WERE OFTEN PHALLIC AT THE HANDLE END AND WERE HELD UPSIDE DOWN BY THE SPIKE AT THE STRIKING END AND BRANDISHED AT THE ENEMY.

I CAN'T SAY AS I REMBER WHERE I READ THAT THE PIPES WERE CONSIDERED A WEAPON OF WAR BUT EARLY ON I THINK THEY WERE MOSTLY USED BY MILITARY MEN. THEY WERE USED ON THE MARCH INTO BATTLE JUST AS THE DRUM WAS AT THE TIME AND THEIR PURPOSE WAS NOT TO SOUND SIGNALS LIKE THE BUGLE AS FAR AS I KNOW. I WOULD THINK THEY HELPED PREPARE THE WARRIORS MENTALY WHILE MARCHING TO BATTLE AND THE STRANGE SOUND WOULD MAKE THE ENEMY A BIT NERVOUS. I SUPPOSE WE NEED A PIPER TO FILL US IN ON THE HISTORY OF THE BAGPIPE. I IMAGINE SOME TUNES WERE TO BOLSTER YOUR COURAGE AND INSPIRE CLAN SPIRIT WHILE OTHERS WERE DESIGNED TO SOUND WILD AND CRAZY KIND OF LIKE SOUNDING A CHARGE INTO BATTLE. I THINK SOME OF THEM TELL A STORY AND SOME ARE JUST TO GET THE BLOOD PUMPING. I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEGE ON THE SUBJECT SO PERHAPS THERE WILL BE SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CAN SET ME STRAIT IF I AM OFF. BUT FROM THE WAY THE PIPES SOUND AND THE REPUTATION OF THE SCOTS AS FIGHTING MEN, I CAN SEE AS TO HOW THEY WOULD HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL EFFECT.

VANDOO · 3rd January 2008, 05:25 AM

HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF THE CLUBS ONE IS A FIJI GUNSTOCK CLUB WITH THE SPIKE MENTIONED ABOVE. THE PICTURE OF A WARRIOR WITH A CLUB ,NEW HEBRIDES, THE LAST IS A PICTURE OF A CLUB FROM NEW CALIDONIA. IT IS INTERESTING THAT MOST OF THE MORE RECENT CLUBS FROM FIJI DO NOT FEATURE THE PHALLIC HANDLES.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd January 2008, 06:07 AM

Yeah Jim, they were instruments of war, and banned, but that was the 1700's.

Of course, I am more than willing to accept that they were also weapons of war---the noise they make is enough to send anybody running.

And while we're on the subject of running, you see an angry 6'5'', 300 pound Maori, you really don't need any haka to get you running in the opposite direction---at least I don't.Here in Australia Maoris and other Pacific Islanders, and men of Pacific Island descent make a very significant contribution to our national religion.Football--ie, rugby or one persuasion or another.

Jim McDougall · 3rd January 2008, 06:22 AM

Actually you're right Alan, they were banned in the 18th century, but began to be allowed once again when the British began forming regiments of Highlanders. The clans never went into battle without the pipes, and the pipers have stirred thier warriors into battle into modern times. There were over a thousand pipers killed in WWI, and even today, when a fallen warrior is put to rest, the pipes are there to send him home.

I will agree with you though on the Maoris and other South Seas groups. I recall younger years in California where certain conflicts arose, with most odds being reasonably level...except when Samoans showed up! Then it was time to quick exit!

All best regards,
Jim

3rd January 2008, 05:25 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF THE CLUBS ONE IS A FIJI GUNSTOCK CLUB WITH THE SPIKE MENTIONED ABOVE. THE PICTURE OF A WARRIOR WITH A CLUB ,NEW HEBRIDES, THE LAST IS A PICTURE OF A CLUB FROM NEW CALIDONIA. IT IS INTERESTING THAT MOST OF THE MORE RECENT CLUBS FROM FIJI DO NOT FEATURE THE PHALLIC HANDLES. Attached Images

3rd January 2008, 04:35 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE MAORI WOULD DO A HAKA WHEN VISITORS APPROACHED THEIR VILLAGE AND THEN END IT WITH A GREETING WHICH IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY WAS TO RUB NOSES. BOTH GROUPS PREFORMED THEIR HAKAS AND TAUNTED AND INSULTED THE OTHER SIDE BEFORE THE FIGHT BEGAN. THE TAUNTING IS COMMON IN MANY TRIBES THERE ARE SOME GOOD FILMS OF IT FROM NEW GUINEA AS THIS KIND OF WARFARE HAS HAPPENED VERY RECENTLY AND MAY STILL OCCUR AMOUNG SOME GROUPS. THE FILM BRAVEHEART SHOWS THE SCOTTS TAUNTING THEIR ENEMYS QUITE WELL. SOME OF THE PACIFIC CLUBS ARE VERY PALLIC IN NATURE AND ARE WAVED AROUND IN A VERY INSULTING MANNER WITH X RATED TAUNTS NO DOUBT. SOME OF THE GUNSTOCK VARIETYS WERE OFTEN PHALLIC AT THE HANDLE END AND WERE HELD UPSIDE DOWN BY THE SPIKE AT THE STRIKING END AND BRANDISHED AT THE ENEMY. I CAN'T SAY AS I REMBER WHERE I READ THAT THE PIPES WERE CONSIDERED A WEAPON OF WAR BUT EARLY ON I THINK THEY WERE MOSTLY USED BY MILITARY MEN. THEY WERE USED ON THE MARCH INTO BATTLE JUST AS THE DRUM WAS AT THE TIME AND THEIR PURPOSE WAS NOT TO SOUND SIGNALS LIKE THE BUGLE AS FAR AS I KNOW. I WOULD THINK THEY HELPED PREPARE THE WARRIORS MENTALY WHILE MARCHING TO BATTLE AND THE STRANGE SOUND WOULD MAKE THE ENEMY A BIT NERVOUS. I SUPPOSE WE NEED A PIPER TO FILL US IN ON THE HISTORY OF THE BAGPIPE. I IMAGINE SOME TUNES WERE TO BOLSTER YOUR COURAGE AND INSPIRE CLAN SPIRIT WHILE OTHERS WERE DESIGNED TO SOUND WILD AND CRAZY KIND OF LIKE SOUNDING A CHARGE INTO BATTLE. I THINK SOME OF THEM TELL A STORY AND SOME ARE JUST TO GET THE BLOOD PUMPING. I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEGE ON THE SUBJECT SO PERHAPS THERE WILL BE SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CAN SET ME STRAIT IF I AM OFF. BUT FROM THE WAY THE PIPES SOUND AND THE REPUTATION OF THE SCOTS AS FIGHTING MEN, I CAN SEE AS TO HOW THEY WOULD HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL EFFECT.

3rd January 2008, 06:07 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yeah Jim, they were instruments of war, and banned, but that was the 1700's. Of course, I am more than willing to accept that they were also weapons of war---the noise they make is enough to send anybody running. And while we're on the subject of running, you see an angry 6'5'', 300 pound Maori, you really don't need any haka to get you running in the opposite direction---at least I don't.Here in Australia Maoris and other Pacific Islanders, and men of Pacific Island descent make a very significant contribution to our national religion.Football--ie, rugby or one persuasion or another.

3rd January 2008, 06:22 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Actually you're right Alan, they were banned in the 18th century, but began to be allowed once again when the British began forming regiments of Highlanders. The clans never went into battle without the pipes, and the pipers have stirred thier warriors into battle into modern times. There were over a thousand pipers killed in WWI, and even today, when a fallen warrior is put to rest, the pipes are there to send him home. I will agree with you though on the Maoris and other South Seas groups. I recall younger years in California where certain conflicts arose, with most odds being reasonably level...except when Samoans showed up! Then it was time to quick exit! All best regards, Jim