Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th December 2007, 05:26 AM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,282
Default

So I continued to do some further research, and discovered some information that some might find interesting.

"...and the deep grave from which they dug them with thier sharp busy claws bore marks of the mystic pickaxe of the thuggee:.
from " A Geographical Reader" James Johonnot, 1882

Even Charles Dickens found this cult interesting, and in an article in "All the Year Round" (Feb.21,1885, p.475) wrote, "...when the pickaxe was made, great precautions were taken that no shadow might fall upon it before it had consecrated and render it useless".
"..seven crimson spots were then put on it".
Further, "...the pickaxe was a fetish, or holy thing. When buried in the earth, it would turn and point in the direction an expedition ought to take. An oath sword on it was inviolable".

In "the Thugs: The Myths of the Cult of Kali" (Dec. 11, 2007) John Walsh writes, "...the corpse would be tucked away in a rectangular grave swiftly dug with a special short handled pickaxe that all thugs carried. It is a curious thing that the same kind of pickaxe was issued to the soldiers fighting in WWI and these were used to dig the inordinately lengthy trench systems".

In further writing concerning the grandson of the British official who had suppressed the thuggee, Sir William Sleeman, it is noted that the pickaxe was shaped like an adze, five pounds in weight and seven inches in length, it had one point, was called a 'kussee' and given into the charge of the shrewdest thug in the gang. Its wooden handle was thrown away after its use, so the axe could be carried in the waistbelt.
Apparantly over seventy years after the events involving Sir William Sleeman, his grandson was involved in testing in India which resulted in the entrenching tool which ended up being issued to British forces in WWI. The article I read claims that he was unaware of the thuggee pickaxes , which seems unlikely and surprisingly coincidental, especially in that it is emphasized that the tool was remarkably similar to the thug 'kussee'.

It seems that seven inches would be a terribly small haft for a tool with which to dig effectively, and as it notes the handles were thrown away and the axes were often buried etc. perhaps this is why none seem to exist. It would seem that an implement as pronounced in the rituals of this cult might have been captured by those who infiltrated them and preserved as souveniers.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 04:56 PM   #2
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Fascinating stuff Jim!

Perhaps the 7 inch length mentioned was the head lenght not the haft though? axes are often described that way.

Seems even more likley if hafts were cut when needed? particularily if the heads were that heavy, I would think. But pure conjecture of course.

I wonder if there are any old Thuggee collections in museams in UK or India?

Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 05:09 PM   #3
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Just found this picture Jim! This one looks like a claw though.

Spiral




THUGGEE CHIEF 1843
Chief of the Thugs, captured by Captain Vallancey in Arcot disguised as a traveller's escort Date: 1843
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 06:24 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,282
Default

Thank you so much for responding Spiral!
Very good point on the length noted, and I wonder on the 5 pound weight as well. This seems pretty heavy, but I have surprised on the actual weight of many swords too. A rapier looks pretty light until you actually handle one!
Great picture you posted, I was looking everywhere to find any kind of an illustratiion showing the much discussed pickaxe, but couldnt find one. Well done!! and much appreciated.

I have been hoping that someone might have information on possible groupings of thuggee items, maybe the National Army Museum in London might have something. They've always been extremely helpful over the years in my constant questions on British swords.

I realize this topic will likely not bring much interest here, but I've always enjoyed going after esoteric topics, so thank you so much for joining me.

All very best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 07:05 PM   #5
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,339
Thumbs up

You've captured my interest Jim .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 02:49 AM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,282
Default

Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica.

All the best
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 03:56 AM   #7
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,339
Smile

Thanks Jim !
I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ?
If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!?

There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.