Damascene and Pamor

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2007, 10:00 PM

What method has been used to fix the pesi?

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:02 AM

Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi?

The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi".

So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base.

The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:37 AM

Hi Alan,

Don't worry, I make that sort of slips all the time, and I've only just turned 30.

Yes, I'm quite positive there were no adhesives used. The white spot by the base of the pesi is actually the white of pamor. Nothing between the ganja and base of blade.

The collector in Lombok who sold this keris claimed that it was from Sumbawa, and the keris did come in a Bugis sheath with corresponding pistol-grip hilt. Are there Bugis settlements in Lombok? Or maybe a Lombok keris went over to Sumbawa?

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:44 AM

Lombok kerises are akin to Balinese kerises, I thought. In this case, the pesi looks absolutely Bugis - short and with a rounded end.

Also, there were a few other Bugis kerises attributed to Sumbawa that were collected in the same trip, one of which had the exact same prabots, but less refined and with 3 luk. That keris definitely is Bugis. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of it handy.

All the 'Sumbawa' kerises from this collector were not washed with warangan, which was why I had no idea what the pamor was like, or that the black spots existed in the pamor, when the keris was purchased.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2007, 03:25 AM

Lombok keris from the old Balinese enclaves are like Bali keris. Lombok keris from the Javanese people there are like Javanese keris. Lombok keris from the Bugis people in Lombok are like Bugis keris.But some Lombok keris have a distinct Lombok personality, which tends to extremism.

Anybody can make any pesi look any way he wants to or needs to. You want to fit a Bugis hilt, you trim the pesi.

When were these keris collected?
pre 1939, or 1999---or later?

I've seen "rare and exotic" weaponry from isolated eastern islands that the seller supposedly swore on his mother's dying oath , had belonged to his great grandfather, but that according to what my experience told me, were straight out of Sumenep.

Put simply:- when something looks as good as this keris does, for me, it comes with an inbuilt question as to how many people could produce this sort of thing 100 years ago. Starting from that point it then goes under the microscope. Use a needle and see if you can dig some epoxy resin mixed with iron filings from between the blade base and the gonjo.

Put even more simply:- I doubt everything.

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 03:54 AM

I do not have info on the date of when the keris was collected in Lombok.

But the needle did not hit any epoxy between the base and the ganja, nor between the ganja and the pesi base. Just metal.

Before the keris was washed, there were quite some rust on certain spots of the keris, some of them are compact spots of rust which have grown into the blade. In fact, after washing, some of these stubborn rust spots still remain. Some parts of the edge have gone serrated due to rust and old cleaning.

The sheath was made for this keris and has all the patina and gunk associated with old age. there were old damage to the bottom of the sampir as well, which has been smoothened with age. The inside of the sampir is old, dusty and patinated. Does not looked like it had been disturbed for a very long time. The batang has a long age crack at the back and ends exactly where the tip of the blade is. The buntut is lost and gone.

The previous Lombok owner had not washed the keris since he acquired it because there were spots of gold left on the ganja and gandik which he was afraid to fall off when washed. True enough, when it was washed, all the gold on the ganja fell off, leaving only the 2 spots on the gandik.

I can't tell for sure if this keris is modern production or not, but it certainly had a certain grace which the modern-day tukang from sumenep (ok, at least for the few good sumenep I have seen

) couldn't reproduce, for all their skills. If this is a new keris, I bow to the maker for his skills.

16th December 2007, 01:02 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi? The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi. Last edited by BluErf; 16th December 2007 at 01:39 AM. Reason: corrected 'what' to 'that'

15th December 2007, 10:00 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	What method has been used to fix the pesi?

16th December 2007, 01:15 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi". So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base. The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.

16th December 2007, 01:37 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, Don't worry, I make that sort of slips all the time, and I've only just turned 30. Yes, I'm quite positive there were no adhesives used. The white spot by the base of the pesi is actually the white of pamor. Nothing between the ganja and base of blade. The collector in Lombok who sold this keris claimed that it was from Sumbawa, and the keris did come in a Bugis sheath with corresponding pistol-grip hilt. Are there Bugis settlements in Lombok? Or maybe a Lombok keris went over to Sumbawa?

16th December 2007, 01:44 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Lombok kerises are akin to Balinese kerises, I thought. In this case, the pesi looks absolutely Bugis - short and with a rounded end. Also, there were a few other Bugis kerises attributed to Sumbawa that were collected in the same trip, one of which had the exact same prabots, but less refined and with 3 luk. That keris definitely is Bugis. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of it handy. All the 'Sumbawa' kerises from this collector were not washed with warangan, which was why I had no idea what the pamor was like, or that the black spots existed in the pamor, when the keris was purchased.

16th December 2007, 03:25 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Lombok keris from the old Balinese enclaves are like Bali keris. Lombok keris from the Javanese people there are like Javanese keris. Lombok keris from the Bugis people in Lombok are like Bugis keris.But some Lombok keris have a distinct Lombok personality, which tends to extremism. Anybody can make any pesi look any way he wants to or needs to. You want to fit a Bugis hilt, you trim the pesi. When were these keris collected? pre 1939, or 1999---or later? I've seen "rare and exotic" weaponry from isolated eastern islands that the seller supposedly swore on his mother's dying oath , had belonged to his great grandfather, but that according to what my experience told me, were straight out of Sumenep. Put simply:- when something looks as good as this keris does, for me, it comes with an inbuilt question as to how many people could produce this sort of thing 100 years ago. Starting from that point it then goes under the microscope. Use a needle and see if you can dig some epoxy resin mixed with iron filings from between the blade base and the gonjo. Put even more simply:- I doubt everything.

16th December 2007, 03:54 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I do not have info on the date of when the keris was collected in Lombok. But the needle did not hit any epoxy between the base and the ganja, nor between the ganja and the pesi base. Just metal. Before the keris was washed, there were quite some rust on certain spots of the keris, some of them are compact spots of rust which have grown into the blade. In fact, after washing, some of these stubborn rust spots still remain. Some parts of the edge have gone serrated due to rust and old cleaning. The sheath was made for this keris and has all the patina and gunk associated with old age. there were old damage to the bottom of the sampir as well, which has been smoothened with age. The inside of the sampir is old, dusty and patinated. Does not looked like it had been disturbed for a very long time. The batang has a long age crack at the back and ends exactly where the tip of the blade is. The buntut is lost and gone. The previous Lombok owner had not washed the keris since he acquired it because there were spots of gold left on the ganja and gandik which he was afraid to fall off when washed. True enough, when it was washed, all the gold on the ganja fell off, leaving only the 2 spots on the gandik. I can't tell for sure if this keris is modern production or not, but it certainly had a certain grace which the modern-day tukang from sumenep (ok, at least for the few good sumenep I have seen ) couldn't reproduce, for all their skills. If this is a new keris, I bow to the maker for his skills.