Dr. Ann, Dr. Ann

Jens Nordlunde · 17th March 2005, 06:27 PM

RSword,
I don’t quite agree with you, although I don’t know much about it, what if the blade had been keep clean and oiled, but the sword itself had been kept in a rather damp place, then the tang would have more corrosion than another sword, also oiled and cleaned, but having been kept in a dry place. Don’t you think?

Jens

Andrew · 17th March 2005, 06:43 PM

I think both Rick and Jens raise interesting and valid points. My suspicion is that tang condition is but one of several elements used to date a Japanese sword. In other words, tang condition, by itself is useful data. Just not definitive.

Comments from Rich on this would be helpful.

Ann Feuerbach · 17th March 2005, 06:44 PM

Perhaps under certain circumstances it may be possible to suggest a date by corrosion, but having spent alot of time with corrosion (during my conservation degree). It would not rely on it. It is so easy to corode something. That said, you can look at the type and depth of corrosion which may suggest if it is genuine or fake, things like intergranular corrosion and what form the iron oxide is in, and if there is any relic stuctures in corrosion products, these factors I believe usually occur during slow corrosion. I have some iron that has been in my garage for only a few years (old file I did not want my mom to toss out, but even in the garage after a short time, they have totally lost their shape. They are even too far gone for me to even attempt to conserve.

Yannis · 17th March 2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

...the sword itself had been kept in a rather damp place...

Jens, in Japanese swords circles this is a blasphemy

Jens Nordlunde · 17th March 2005, 07:28 PM

Yannis, I am sure it is, but some people live near the sea, and som inland - that should give a difference, if maybe only a small one - but over the years?

Jens

Bill · 17th March 2005, 07:41 PM

My original question was in referance to: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...Cook-0305.html , but seems to be less than perfect. I've also read there is some debate to when the "luwa" (Sulawesi) smelting started. Is thermoluminescence viable for these studies or is it just to expensive for Universities for results that still would be questioned.

17th March 2005, 06:27 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	RSword, I don’t quite agree with you, although I don’t know much about it, what if the blade had been keep clean and oiled, but the sword itself had been kept in a rather damp place, then the tang would have more corrosion than another sword, also oiled and cleaned, but having been kept in a dry place. Don’t you think? Jens

17th March 2005, 06:43 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think both Rick and Jens raise interesting and valid points. My suspicion is that tang condition is but one of several elements used to date a Japanese sword. In other words, tang condition, by itself is useful data. Just not definitive. Comments from Rich on this would be helpful.

17th March 2005, 06:44 PM	#3
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Perhaps under certain circumstances it may be possible to suggest a date by corrosion, but having spent alot of time with corrosion (during my conservation degree). It would not rely on it. It is so easy to corode something. That said, you can look at the type and depth of corrosion which may suggest if it is genuine or fake, things like intergranular corrosion and what form the iron oxide is in, and if there is any relic stuctures in corrosion products, these factors I believe usually occur during slow corrosion. I have some iron that has been in my garage for only a few years (old file I did not want my mom to toss out, but even in the garage after a short time, they have totally lost their shape. They are even too far gone for me to even attempt to conserve.

17th March 2005, 07:28 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yannis, I am sure it is, but some people live near the sea, and som inland - that should give a difference, if maybe only a small one - but over the years? Jens

17th March 2005, 07:41 PM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	My original question was in referance to: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...Cook-0305.html , but seems to be less than perfect. I've also read there is some debate to when the "luwa" (Sulawesi) smelting started. Is thermoluminescence viable for these studies or is it just to expensive for Universities for results that still would be questioned.