Mandara mountains tabouka

[katana]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Also arc welding would not fit the age of the handle. I have never seen arc welding not burn the surrounding area. Arc welding became widely used in the 1920s so I doubt available in the backwoods of Africa, possibly Oxyacetylene in cities. The weld is not all scabby like the flash pictures make out.

Hi Tim
I was thinking more along the lines that... if welded it was much later than when forged, (later damage repair?)

A forge weld would only require (in this instance) two pieces of steel/iron (the 2 halves of the blade), AFAIK the correct heat, flux and hammering would create an almost seamless joint. The join in your pictures (the 'raised' seam) suggests that a third 'piece' of steel/iron was added ie from an arc welding rod or, if gas welded, some 'donor' steel/iron (for instance the 'coat hanger wire' suggested by Robert)

With my very basic knowledge of the forging process, I thought that...

If the blade had been damaged / broken then to facillitate a forge weld the handle would have been removed. The two halves (of the blade) would have then been heated to a high temperature and cooled very slowly (to normalise and relieve stresses within the metal structure) this would remove the temper and 'hardness'. Then the two halves would have been forged welded (heat/hammer work), and once done, shaped. It is likely that the whole blade would again be heated to a high temperature and very slowly cooled ....to again remove stresses in the metal's structure (sometimes done several times). Finally the whole blade would heated to the correct heat/colour and quenched to give the blade its final hardness/temper.

Any how, whether I'm right or wrong.... it is still a good piece. Showing how it was worn brings the 'sword to life'.

Kind Regards David

[fernando]

Not forgetting the dog
What's his name ?

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Tim,
Thank you so much for displaying the reference which shows this weapon is indeed Mandala, which reference is it?
It's funny, I've always added references and page numbers etc. in my posts as a matter of habit, as well as very academic colleagues who emphasized the importance of adding such supporting information. Working without my resources at hand I rely very much on past posted material in the archives, and the few resources I typically have with me. In any case this was good exercise in trying to identify this sword, and I appreciate this reference now added to my notes.

The common goal I share with the staff and many of the members here is virtually building a resource network that we can all share in researching and learning about these weapons. In the time I spent reviewing posts to try to confirm the identification of this sword, I must say your contributions have been key to the core of knowledge here on African weapons, along with of course Freddy, Lew and many of the others who have added vital observations.

Now that I know this weapon is from Mandala, I also now see how such a long weapon was worn (very nicely shown ! and please thank your wife for her kind assistance).

Nicely done Tim!
All the best,
Jim

[Tim Simmons]

The sword can be drawn when the arm is moved so that the elbow is pointing straight out behind the body.

In forge welding more than two pieces of metal can be joined. Metal can be introduced to the work. In the sword you can see that for the environment and one just has to study the materials of the piece, I would say this was the work of a highly skilled smith an artist no-less.

The dog is called "Patch" he is a "Parson Russell" He works as a PAT dog -Pets As Therapy. They are hard to train, lively with a very strong hunting instinct he is always ready to fight. He is neutered and muzzled when let free, glad I am not a dog. I would not recommend then even if he is sweet and loving to people.

Forgot to mention the pictures are from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" a simply most have book. They come up quite frequently on Belgian ebay so watch out for a copy. Thanks for all the interest, I received the club I mentioned at the start of the thread. I am saving it to post on Christmas day for relaxation when mother inlaw has gone home .

[Jeff Pringle]

As a swordsmith with extensive forgewelding experience who has shared shop space with welders and architectural blacksmiths, I’d have to say the discontinuity in the metal of this blade appears to be completely consistent with an arc/gas weld done long after the forging of the blade.
It would be impossible to get the metal to look that way via a forge welding process.
That’s what the photos are saying, but of course I defer judgment to those who can see the actual sword.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Tim!

[Tim Simmons]

It is probably best to have an open verdict on the weld. In my opinion it was done at the time of and in the forging of the blade. My reasons are-

The lack of any burn at the site, bluing or straw discolouration . There is only the most basic finishing to the metal. A new weld on any piece of metal would make rather a lot of mess. Even a high tech spot weld leaves a blue halo.

You can see in the pictures thin metal layers are worked and spread by hammer action. I have some other African pieces I will get day light pictures of to make comparisons with.

Finally and not wanting to be rude to anyone. Perhaps the work is skilled and delicate beyond the average metalworker particularly when they are really only used to working in a western environment with plentiful western materials.

Would such a large later added weld not affect the temper? The temper is even through the blade.