Another tulwar

fernando · 19th November 2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Hey, nice sword there Fernando!

Thank you so much, Sager ... do i spell it right?

Fernando

fernando · 19th November 2007, 07:30 PM

Hi Jim,
Thanks a lot for your comprehensive input

.
You and others will know better, but the purpose for the hole in current tulwar hilt finials is, or also is, that of fitting the hanging ring, for the use of a lanyard or the like.
As for my example, and to be precise, its finial is more a rectangular piece than a square one ... crudely made, so not impeaching the intention to have made it square. I wonder why it is split in two halves, at least in all its visible part.
In view of that, at first sight i don't see in this device a mechanical convenience for its dismounting by literaly turning it off. It could as well be embodied to the hilt, the disc and dome (pommel) being the moveable parts, both held by the dome, fixed by hammering ( welding ) it to the finial.
On the other hand, this assembly is restricted to the hilt per se, as the "hilting" of the tulwar is an operation that joins the blade with the allready set up hilt ... the tang not trespassing the whole grip, ending somewhere inside it.
As for marks, what i have in this specimen are certainly not explicit Ordenance marks, and maybe neither Armoury ones. Assuming they are not graphic symbols, they surely are intentional marks, with three repeated equal rows of dots ... not just steel or handling defects; possibly some maker's code ... what do i know.
I hope i made myself understood and with a low % of nonsense

.
Kind regards
Fernando
PS
Here are pictures with different light ... and maybe some more accurate

fernando · 19th November 2007, 07:32 PM

Hi David
I follow your wise thaughts

.
Concerning the blade choil, i guess it may have purposes other than facilitating the hilting, like not being practical to sharpen the blade too close from the langets, or also even some kind of external influence.
It doesn't take much grip to introduce the blade, as you hold the hilt upright with one hand and, with the other, you let the blade penetrate, with the help of its weight and gravity, while the pitch is still liquid ... apparently a smooth operation

All the best
Fernando

fernando · 19th November 2007, 08:09 PM

Hi Jens
Thanks for your considerations.
I have visited Rainer Daehnhardt shops in Lisbon, and i had in mind to ask him to coment on some parts of his book that have been considered discusseable.
Concerning the tulwars being stored in separate places, he stil assumes what he has written in the book. But i have learnt that he was referring to a specific case, and not to generality. In one of his (three?) visits to India, around 1970, he met a certain Maharaja in the north whom, at time of visiting his arsenal, asked him whether he wanted to see the blades first, or the hilts. For the case, they were kept in two towers, located about one kilometer away from each other.
The reason explained for such attitude was the one we already know.
He said ( i didn't ask him ) that the Maharaja's name was complex and dificult to memorize ... "Bija" something or the like.
Naturaly this is a facultative situation, nobody has to beleive in it.
Concerning yours and Jim observations on this tulwar type, it certainly is for infantry, due to the blade length. With its slight curve and false edge, it functions well as a thrusting weapon.
Best regards
Fernando

sandeepsingh · 11th December 2007, 03:50 PM

Nice blade !!!
I think this blade is of traditionaly old Indian forged damascus steel with cloudy patterns.
I am saying this because some cloudy patterns are visible in the blade pic, i might be wrong.
Can you provide detail pics of blade???

fernando · 11th December 2007, 09:17 PM

Hi Sandeepsingh.
Thanks a lot for your posting.
Are you referring to the same situation quoted by RSWORD in earlier posting #6, where he used the terms "wavy undulating efects" ?
It happens that the cloudy efects in this blade are not so dense and i can not manage to get better pictures of it. Or are you referring to a different type of details ?
Could you also coment on the multi dots stroke near the blade forte ? Are they any kind of markings ?
Please come again with further observations on this piece, you feel like.
Thanks again
Fernando

sandeepsingh · 12th December 2007, 05:27 AM

Hi Fernando,
Thanks for observing my views, according to my view its a Cloudy or Wavy patterns. These days the damascus steel is generally made up of 512 layers while in old damascus steel there are not so much layers it may be 64 layers or lower layers only thats why it have cloudy or wavy patterns.
In my views its not an effects its a damascus steel only with Cloudy or wavy patterns.
These marks are makers mark only.
These types of blades also comes in plain carbon steel with fullers.
But i steel need a detail pic of blade for my conclusion.

19th November 2007, 07:30 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, Thanks a lot for your comprehensive input . You and others will know better, but the purpose for the hole in current tulwar hilt finials is, or also is, that of fitting the hanging ring, for the use of a lanyard or the like. As for my example, and to be precise, its finial is more a rectangular piece than a square one ... crudely made, so not impeaching the intention to have made it square. I wonder why it is split in two halves, at least in all its visible part. In view of that, at first sight i don't see in this device a mechanical convenience for its dismounting by literaly turning it off. It could as well be embodied to the hilt, the disc and dome (pommel) being the moveable parts, both held by the dome, fixed by hammering ( welding ) it to the finial. On the other hand, this assembly is restricted to the hilt per se, as the "hilting" of the tulwar is an operation that joins the blade with the allready set up hilt ... the tang not trespassing the whole grip, ending somewhere inside it. As for marks, what i have in this specimen are certainly not explicit Ordenance marks, and maybe neither Armoury ones. Assuming they are not graphic symbols, they surely are intentional marks, with three repeated equal rows of dots ... not just steel or handling defects; possibly some maker's code ... what do i know. I hope i made myself understood and with a low % of nonsense . Kind regards Fernando PS Here are pictures with different light ... and maybe some more accurate Attached Images

12th December 2007, 05:27 AM	#7
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Hi Fernando, Thanks for observing my views, according to my view its a Cloudy or Wavy patterns. These days the damascus steel is generally made up of 512 layers while in old damascus steel there are not so much layers it may be 64 layers or lower layers only thats why it have cloudy or wavy patterns. In my views its not an effects its a damascus steel only with Cloudy or wavy patterns. These marks are makers mark only. These types of blades also comes in plain carbon steel with fullers. But i steel need a detail pic of blade for my conclusion. Attached Images

19th November 2007, 07:32 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David I follow your wise thaughts . Concerning the blade choil, i guess it may have purposes other than facilitating the hilting, like not being practical to sharpen the blade too close from the langets, or also even some kind of external influence. It doesn't take much grip to introduce the blade, as you hold the hilt upright with one hand and, with the other, you let the blade penetrate, with the help of its weight and gravity, while the pitch is still liquid ... apparently a smooth operation All the best Fernando

19th November 2007, 08:09 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jens Thanks for your considerations. I have visited Rainer Daehnhardt shops in Lisbon, and i had in mind to ask him to coment on some parts of his book that have been considered discusseable. Concerning the tulwars being stored in separate places, he stil assumes what he has written in the book. But i have learnt that he was referring to a specific case, and not to generality. In one of his (three?) visits to India, around 1970, he met a certain Maharaja in the north whom, at time of visiting his arsenal, asked him whether he wanted to see the blades first, or the hilts. For the case, they were kept in two towers, located about one kilometer away from each other. The reason explained for such attitude was the one we already know. He said ( i didn't ask him ) that the Maharaja's name was complex and dificult to memorize ... "Bija" something or the like. Naturaly this is a facultative situation, nobody has to beleive in it. Concerning yours and Jim observations on this tulwar type, it certainly is for infantry, due to the blade length. With its slight curve and false edge, it functions well as a thrusting weapon. Best regards Fernando

11th December 2007, 03:50 PM	#5
sandeepsingh Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: India Posts: 85	Nice blade !!! I think this blade is of traditionaly old Indian forged damascus steel with cloudy patterns. I am saying this because some cloudy patterns are visible in the blade pic, i might be wrong. Can you provide detail pics of blade???

11th December 2007, 09:17 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Sandeepsingh. Thanks a lot for your posting. Are you referring to the same situation quoted by RSWORD in earlier posting #6, where he used the terms "wavy undulating efects" ? It happens that the cloudy efects in this blade are not so dense and i can not manage to get better pictures of it. Or are you referring to a different type of details ? Could you also coment on the multi dots stroke near the blade forte ? Are they any kind of markings ? Please come again with further observations on this piece, you feel like. Thanks again Fernando