Bambang Harsrinuksmo

ganjawulung · 31st October 2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Keris certificates are as reliable as the person who provides them.

Dear Alan,

Thanks a lot for your wise response, on Mr Bambang and keris certification. I think I must agree with you, and I found a lot of useful thing from your explanation. Once again, thank you for your response..

On certification, I know that there was a kind of "tradition" on certificating in the past. The formal name in kraton term as "serat kekancingan", or a kind of letter of carification on pusakas in kraton. Usually, written in javanese scripture. Such letter usually mentions the characteristics of the keris such dapur, tangguh and the name. Of course, the format of certificate is varied and not all pusakas in kraton have such kekancingan. And of course, not with photo or picture of the pusaka. Whether such certificate is useless or not, it is another matter.

The people who have authority in issuing such certificate, called as "paniti kadga" (maybe it can be translated as: keris or royal pusaka expert). And usually, people with authority of paniti kadga is "abdi dalem reksa pusaka" (kraton servant or kraton employe which have duty of caring the kraton pusaka). But not all the abdi dalem reksa pusaka is paniti kadga. On manipulation, since we deal with human being, manipulation will of course have possibility to happen.

The living paniti kadga, in kraton Surakarta (Solo) now -- as far as I know, is Mr Sukad. Or we used to call him, Pak Bei Sukad. At least, he was paniti kadga during the late Paku Buwana XII.

Another "serat kekancingan" is for human being, for people who have blood relation with king in the past. Common people can get this kekancingan, as long as they can prove their blood relation, as long as they can supply written evidence. The people who has authority in issuing such kekancingan, in kraton (Yogyakarta), called abdi dalem kraton, "tepas darah dalem" or more or less means "royal blood officer"... Usually, people with royal blood have such kekancingan. Whether it is useful of not, this is another matter too.

Ganjawulung

David · 31st October 2007, 02:06 PM

Alan, thanks for your perspective on this. My only experience with certificates is that i see them frequently offerred with certain keris being auctioned on eBay. Often enough they are signed by names i am unfamilar with, which is not in any way an indication that the signer is not reputable. Collectors in Jawa might well be very aware of the name. But from my position i have no way of knowing if this piece of paper has any real value or even if it is authentic. Still, i can see how such certificates can be helpful in the right place with the right people.

Raden Usman Djogja · 31st October 2007, 02:08 PM

Pak Ganja & Pak Alan

I heard that normally in Aussie race-horses have ceritificates (both birth dan family tree certicifate). It is different matter whether they can race well or not. Visually, I saw race-horses in Cauldfield much better than carriage-horses in Swanston street when I was in Melbourne.

Based on above example, one question is whether something will be taken care more gently and lovely when it was certificated. If "YES", so certification is useful. If "NOT", it is anothe matter, again

Pak Ganja, to add your information about "certification of blood related to ancient king", perhaps the procedure is simpler now. If somebody does ny have written evidence, he can get a blood certificate as long as he accepts to be sworn by royal blood officer. So far, none claim and request a certificat as the offspring of LION KING... above all KING LION (never ever happened)

rahman · 1st November 2007, 06:14 AM

Like great authors, artists and composers, we know the man from his works. I've never had the pleasure of knowing Pak Bambang personally, but I have great respect for his work, especially Ensiklopedi Keris.

Pak Bambang -- is it possible to share your copy of Orang Biasa? You may wish to get permission from his family, but I think such an autobiography may be a valuable addition to our ol of knowledge. I believe there are many members who share my feelings, and who do understand Bahasa Indonesia.

I am willing to layout the draft and create a pdf version to be shared by all.

31st October 2007, 02:06 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,228	Alan, thanks for your perspective on this. My only experience with certificates is that i see them frequently offerred with certain keris being auctioned on eBay. Often enough they are signed by names i am unfamilar with, which is not in any way an indication that the signer is not reputable. Collectors in Jawa might well be very aware of the name. But from my position i have no way of knowing if this piece of paper has any real value or even if it is authentic. Still, i can see how such certificates can be helpful in the right place with the right people.

31st October 2007, 02:08 PM	#3
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Pak Ganja & Pak Alan I heard that normally in Aussie race-horses have ceritificates (both birth dan family tree certicifate). It is different matter whether they can race well or not. Visually, I saw race-horses in Cauldfield much better than carriage-horses in Swanston street when I was in Melbourne. Based on above example, one question is whether something will be taken care more gently and lovely when it was certificated. If "YES", so certification is useful. If "NOT", it is anothe matter, again Pak Ganja, to add your information about "certification of blood related to ancient king", perhaps the procedure is simpler now. If somebody does ny have written evidence, he can get a blood certificate as long as he accepts to be sworn by royal blood officer. So far, none claim and request a certificat as the offspring of LION KING... above all KING LION (never ever happened)

1st November 2007, 06:14 AM	#4
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Like great authors, artists and composers, we know the man from his works. I've never had the pleasure of knowing Pak Bambang personally, but I have great respect for his work, especially Ensiklopedi Keris. Pak Bambang -- is it possible to share your copy of Orang Biasa? You may wish to get permission from his family, but I think such an autobiography may be a valuable addition to our ol of knowledge. I believe there are many members who share my feelings, and who do understand Bahasa Indonesia. I am willing to layout the draft and create a pdf version to be shared by all.