Nice East African club,

Tim Simmons · 23rd October 2007, 09:38 PM

The taper to the fore end did concern me me but seeing it in illustrations i thought it must be just the way they are, I can show other such tapers on sticks/weapons. Many Indian weapons "axes" have to my mind very thin handles? It may even be possible that these clubs could have been thrown when needed so the taper may have some relevance in that particular case?

kronckew · 23rd October 2007, 11:16 PM

my first impression as a salty dog of a sailor was that is a marlinspike or fid.

marlinespikes, wood

steel fids, various:

misc fids, marlinespikes & other seaman's accessories.

these also were pressed into service as weapons on occasion. a clearer picture might help in classification of yours

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2007, 10:17 AM

Yes I can see the train of thought here. These pictures help show my thoughts. The object shown is the same size 59cm long.

katana · 24th October 2007, 02:02 PM

Tim,
I found this described as a mid 19 th C fid (marlinspike)

".....Measures a little over 18 inches long with a max diameter of 2 3/4. The spike weighs approx 1 3/4 lbs..."
Checking the description of the types of wood used in the construction of these 'fids' ...Lignum Vitae and other heavy dense timber species were used. The same wood used for clubs

The size of the 'fid' would be dependant on the thickness of rope it is used for.....which suggests that if yours is a fid ... the ship this was used on must have been fairly large.....

Rick · 24th October 2007, 03:43 PM

As another guy who has to keep brushing the salt from his shoulders I would say that Tim's "fid" is the longest one I have ever seen considering the length to diameter ratio .

Another note; even large sailing vessels have some smaller lines in the rigging; consider the ratlines among others .

katana · 24th October 2007, 04:23 PM

There is the possibillity that EVERYONE is right. It is not inconceivable that this WAS a club, modified by a matlow (by tapering the handle) to use as a spike. The fids I have seen all seem to taper evenly (conical) a shape not reflected by Tims example, but it does have the binding next to the 'head' which 'packs out' the shaft and would provide better handling (two handed) for use as a fid.

Bearing in mind the ideal types of wood used for clubs and Fids are the same ....it would make an almost ideal replacement at short notice.

Hi Rick,

what I meant was that larger sailing ships would have a larger range of rope thickness.....and would require thicker rope to cope with higher 'stress loading' because of the larger masts and sails etc they 'supported'.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2007, 04:36 PM

Very interesting. This thing is still another 6 inches longer so I really feel this is not a marlin spike. I can clearly see the similarity in shape. However all and even the decorated examples shown lack the subtlety of this piece, their form and execution being workman like in the extreme. I am also drawn very much to the polish and patina to the wood. Shorley if one needed a spike this long to untie knots one would need to drive it home. The elegant distal end does not seem suggestive of that kind of use. We will just have to wait. I belive in Stone there are AUS Aboriginal clubs begining with K very much of this form. I will check shortly.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2007, 04:49 PM

Yes a Kujerung or Kallak. I believe there are also clubs of the same form with stout hafts rather than the tapererd throwing haft. So I might be a bit off but I am pretty sure I am not floating dead in the water.

katana · 24th October 2007, 04:50 PM

I have tried to enhance the picture Tim provided and it seems to add 'weight' to the above 'possibility' (that this is a modified club). From the head (photo) to the 'red line' the shaft is evenly (slightly) tapered with a 'shiny' surface. From the 'red line' to the pointed tip the surface is much more of a 'matt' surface and the edges are no longer 'evenly' tapering and the finish is not as precise (when compared to the first section.)

It could be argued that the 'matt' area is the area that has been 'handled' most.....but usually 'handled' areas of wood get 'grubby' (natural 'skin oils' / sweat) and smooth (shiny?).....as far as I know.

24th October 2007, 02:02 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Tim, I found this described as a mid 19 th C fid (marlinspike) ".....Measures a little over 18 inches long with a max diameter of 2 3/4. The spike weighs approx 1 3/4 lbs..." Checking the description of the types of wood used in the construction of these 'fids' ...Lignum Vitae and other heavy dense timber species were used. The same wood used for clubs The size of the 'fid' would be dependant on the thickness of rope it is used for.....which suggests that if yours is a fid ... the ship this was used on must have been fairly large..... Attached Images Last edited by katana; 24th October 2007 at 03:55 PM.

24th October 2007, 04:23 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	There is the possibillity that EVERYONE is right. It is not inconceivable that this WAS a club, modified by a matlow (by tapering the handle) to use as a spike. The fids I have seen all seem to taper evenly (conical) a shape not reflected by Tims example, but it does have the binding next to the 'head' which 'packs out' the shaft and would provide better handling (two handed) for use as a fid. Bearing in mind the ideal types of wood used for clubs and Fids are the same ....it would make an almost ideal replacement at short notice. Hi Rick, what I meant was that larger sailing ships would have a larger range of rope thickness.....and would require thicker rope to cope with higher 'stress loading' because of the larger masts and sails etc they 'supported'. Last edited by katana; 24th October 2007 at 04:49 PM.

24th October 2007, 04:50 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I have tried to enhance the picture Tim provided and it seems to add 'weight' to the above 'possibility' (that this is a modified club). From the head (photo) to the 'red line' the shaft is evenly (slightly) tapered with a 'shiny' surface. From the 'red line' to the pointed tip the surface is much more of a 'matt' surface and the edges are no longer 'evenly' tapering and the finish is not as precise (when compared to the first section.) It could be argued that the 'matt' area is the area that has been 'handled' most.....but usually 'handled' areas of wood get 'grubby' (natural 'skin oils' / sweat) and smooth (shiny?).....as far as I know. Attached Images Last edited by katana; 24th October 2007 at 05:22 PM.

23rd October 2007, 09:38 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	The taper to the fore end did concern me me but seeing it in illustrations i thought it must be just the way they are, I can show other such tapers on sticks/weapons. Many Indian weapons "axes" have to my mind very thin handles? It may even be possible that these clubs could have been thrown when needed so the taper may have some relevance in that particular case?

23rd October 2007, 11:16 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	my first impression as a salty dog of a sailor was that is a marlinspike or fid. marlinespikes, wood steel fids, various: misc fids, marlinespikes & other seaman's accessories. these also were pressed into service as weapons on occasion. a clearer picture might help in classification of yours

24th October 2007, 10:17 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes I can see the train of thought here. These pictures help show my thoughts. The object shown is the same size 59cm long.

24th October 2007, 03:43 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	As another guy who has to keep brushing the salt from his shoulders I would say that Tim's "fid" is the longest one I have ever seen considering the length to diameter ratio . Another note; even large sailing vessels have some smaller lines in the rigging; consider the ratlines among others .

24th October 2007, 04:36 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Very interesting. This thing is still another 6 inches longer so I really feel this is not a marlin spike. I can clearly see the similarity in shape. However all and even the decorated examples shown lack the subtlety of this piece, their form and execution being workman like in the extreme. I am also drawn very much to the polish and patina to the wood. Shorley if one needed a spike this long to untie knots one would need to drive it home. The elegant distal end does not seem suggestive of that kind of use. We will just have to wait. I belive in Stone there are AUS Aboriginal clubs begining with K very much of this form. I will check shortly.

24th October 2007, 04:49 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes a Kujerung or Kallak. I believe there are also clubs of the same form with stout hafts rather than the tapererd throwing haft. So I might be a bit off but I am pretty sure I am not floating dead in the water.