I say Africa, you say?

katana · 16th October 2007, 09:49 PM

Hi Tim,
certainly has an African 'look', a cosh / dagger combination ? Do you know what shape the blade profile is (in cross section) Some of the pics on the listing seem to suggest a 'triangular' shape. If so could this be an old bayonet blade sheathed in a modified gun barrel ?? Nice !

Could this be Zulu.....has a knobkerrie look, the bayonets used in the Zulu wars were the 1876 Enfield triangular pattern, 25.25 in (63,5 cm) long. If a rifle barrel was used to make the scabbard, it could be rifled (I believe 7 grooved) or smoothbore ( the Zulus had a few muzzle-loading percussion smoothbore muskets at Isandlwana) All just a thought off the 'top of my head' but if this is the case, what a facinating piece of history.

dennee · 17th October 2007, 04:22 AM

It's funny how one tends to associate new things with other, familiar things. To me, the form looks like a Tibetan pen case--with a difference!

Tim Simmons · 17th October 2007, 07:13 AM

Good point it could look Asian too. Hopefully it will be here soon to inspect. It is also strange how that big pictures of an object taken a certain way can be not very clear.

I stuck my neck out on this.

Jim McDougall · 18th October 2007, 02:43 AM

Another one for Tim's 'Museum of Weapons Curiosa'!!

I really look forward to the stuff you come up with Tim! Fascinating.
I think Katana has a good idea on the bayonet blade, but this looks pretty worked down. I think in the direction of 'trench art' with many items fashioned out of spent ammunition casings, bayonets etc. The rifle barrel idea seems plausible too.
Possibly an officers baton? or swagger stick?

dennee · 18th October 2007, 03:41 AM

The attached photo is kinda what I had in mind in terms of a pen case. They are often highly decorated and/or pierced, but there are simpler ones. The link below is to a similarly shaped example---which can't be seen very well but is described as containing a single-edged knife.

http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewL...tCode=Sjp3zSo1

Tim Simmons · 18th October 2007, 06:34 PM

I think you might have the answer there dennee. The similarity of form and construction does seem too strong to think otherwise. A pleasant surprise. I hope to have it tomorrow.

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2007, 10:27 AM

Clearly Indian and at one time covered in silver plated pattern made to look like inlay. The sort of thing you see on many axes some have the same blade screw fitted in the handle. I can never make my mind up as to whether this sort of thing are just very early "Victorian" tourist stuff or real Indian things made to be used in earnest. I had to clean it a bit but I prefered it all black like it was

so I will have to leave it in the shed over winter? Not really my sort of thing but it feels quite nice in the hand. I suppose the price was just about fair

16th October 2007, 09:49 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, certainly has an African 'look', a cosh / dagger combination ? Do you know what shape the blade profile is (in cross section) Some of the pics on the listing seem to suggest a 'triangular' shape. If so could this be an old bayonet blade sheathed in a modified gun barrel ?? Nice ! Could this be Zulu.....has a knobkerrie look, the bayonets used in the Zulu wars were the 1876 Enfield triangular pattern, 25.25 in (63,5 cm) long. If a rifle barrel was used to make the scabbard, it could be rifled (I believe 7 grooved) or smoothbore ( the Zulus had a few muzzle-loading percussion smoothbore muskets at Isandlwana) All just a thought off the 'top of my head' but if this is the case, what a facinating piece of history. Last edited by katana; 16th October 2007 at 10:22 PM.

18th October 2007, 03:41 AM	#5
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	The attached photo is kinda what I had in mind in terms of a pen case. They are often highly decorated and/or pierced, but there are simpler ones. The link below is to a similarly shaped example---which can't be seen very well but is described as containing a single-edged knife. http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewL...tCode=Sjp3zSo1 Attached Images

19th October 2007, 10:27 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	Old Indian Clearly Indian and at one time covered in silver plated pattern made to look like inlay. The sort of thing you see on many axes some have the same blade screw fitted in the handle. I can never make my mind up as to whether this sort of thing are just very early "Victorian" tourist stuff or real Indian things made to be used in earnest. I had to clean it a bit but I prefered it all black like it was so I will have to leave it in the shed over winter? Not really my sort of thing but it feels quite nice in the hand. I suppose the price was just about fair

17th October 2007, 04:22 AM	#2
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	It's funny how one tends to associate new things with other, familiar things. To me, the form looks like a Tibetan pen case--with a difference!

17th October 2007, 07:13 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	Good point it could look Asian too. Hopefully it will be here soon to inspect. It is also strange how that big pictures of an object taken a certain way can be not very clear. I stuck my neck out on this.

18th October 2007, 02:43 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Another one for Tim's 'Museum of Weapons Curiosa'!! I really look forward to the stuff you come up with Tim! Fascinating. I think Katana has a good idea on the bayonet blade, but this looks pretty worked down. I think in the direction of 'trench art' with many items fashioned out of spent ammunition casings, bayonets etc. The rifle barrel idea seems plausible too. Possibly an officers baton? or swagger stick?

18th October 2007, 06:34 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	I think you might have the answer there dennee. The similarity of form and construction does seem too strong to think otherwise. A pleasant surprise. I hope to have it tomorrow.