A bit unusual keris

Alam Shah · 14th March 2005, 03:01 AM

For book reference, see...

Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago
by Albert G. Van Zonneveld

Hardcover: 160 pages
Publisher: Kitlv Press (July 1, 2002)
ISBN: 9054500042

rasdan · 14th March 2005, 03:11 AM

Thanks, Alam.

John · 25th March 2005, 05:04 AM

Whilst we have been on Sulawesi/Bugis... From the publication - HOUTSNIJWERK EN METAALBEWERKING IN NEDERLANDSCH-INDIE. PUBLISHER: DEBUSSY, AMSTERDAM, 1916.

Raja Muda · 25th March 2005, 10:39 AM

While we're on this subject, there's always one thing I wanted to ask Dave. Last month I visited the Asian Civilisations Museum across the bay from the Cavanagh bridge.
I was intrigued to see one of the kerises in the display. It has a nogo blade if I'm not mistaken but it was provenanced Bugis (again, if memory serves me right). I don't know if anyone else here, especially the orang Singapure have ever noticed this particular blade (inside the Malay world gallery).
Were the Bugis smiths also manufacturing blade types similar to those by the Javanese empus or was this one a trade blade? hmmm

BluErf · 25th March 2005, 04:49 PM

That blade is a true-blue straits bugis blade, not a javanese blade. Thick, broad, robust, in full bugis glory. The naga is also not of javanese form.

John · 17th August 2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja Muda

... Last month I visited the Asian Civilisations Museum across the bay from the Cavanagh bridge.
I was intrigued to see one of the kerises in the display. It has a nogo blade if I'm not mistaken but it was provenanced Bugis (again, if memory serves me right). I don't know if anyone else here, especially the orang Singapure have ever noticed this particular blade (inside the Malay world gallery).
Were the Bugis smiths also manufacturing blade types similar to those by the Javanese empus or was this one a trade blade? hmmm

Just happened to chance upon this thread (post) via url from the "Question About SEA Armor" thread. I vividly remember seeing this particular gorgeous solid sturdy tegap strait Bugis Naga keris at the ACM during my visit there in April and particularly like it's coherent form. The other rather catchy and outstanding piece was the Peninsular (?) keris blade with 10 different pamors (if I remember correctly). Almost gives one the impression that it might be it's smith's final attempt to register as much of his key pamor skills onto that blade like a "textbook" he wanted left behind.

Raja Muda · 18th August 2005, 03:03 AM

Hi John,

I think Naga blades can both be a joy and frustration to collectors. From conversations I had with collectors who put a lot of faith in lore and a bit less on systematic book learning (my approach is a combination of both I guess) they have this belief that keris with Naga were meant for royals and blue bloods only. And talking about Java, such keris were probably spread around hundreds of Priyayi from your Raden Mas up to your Kanjeng Pagerans etc. Getting a good old one would be a great thing.
However, the naga motif today is also one of the most mass produced pattern you get on cheap tourist blades made from Madura, with a kind of yellow metal inlay that imitates Kinatah blades.
There are occassionally good newly made blades of this kind, and I think it's OK to buy them, just for the sake of keeping the craft alive, but you have people who try and pass the as older stuff. Bad.
Hence the reason why I stick to Malay kerises.

John · 18th August 2005, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raja Muda

Hi John,
...Hence the reason why I stick to Malay kerises.

Maybe I'm getting old. It has just been old or fairly old Bugis for me the past couple of years...and waiting for 2 more old Bugis from England...

BluErf · 18th August 2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

The other rather catchy and outstanding piece was the Peninsular (?) keris blade with 10 different pamors (if I remember correctly). Almost gives one the impression that it might be it's smith's final attempt to register as much of his key pamor skills onto that blade like a "textbook" he wanted left behind.

Hi John,

I think that's a Javanese keris. Yes, really brings a tear to the eye... its so beautiful...

Hey, show us your 2 old 'babies' when they arrive ok.

John · 19th August 2005, 03:10 AM

Hi Kai Wee,

Pity I didn't bring my camera that day as ACM does allow photography without flash.

The 2 old "babes" will make a transit at Singapore so probably you could take a look in person and perhaps offer some restoration recommendations prior to them moving on to Kelantan for the purpose. If they turn out well, I probably will put up pictures here or at the KampungNet.

kerisbiz · 20th June 2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Whilst we have been on Sulawesi/Bugis... From the publication - HOUTSNIJWERK EN METAALBEWERKING IN NEDERLANDSCH-INDIE. PUBLISHER: DEBUSSY, AMSTERDAM, 1916.

where can i get the copy of this book ?

Battara · 21st June 2016, 04:34 PM

I will move this to the Keris Forum.

mariusgmioc · 27th June 2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I will move this to the Keris Forum.

I thought this IS the Keris forum?!

Rick · 27th June 2016, 06:51 PM

Marius, the post (#49) is dated 2005, before the keris subforum was created.

This will happen now and then when a post is dredged up from the old pre warung Ethno forum.

kerisbiz · 5th September 2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Whilst we have been on Sulawesi/Bugis... From the publication - HOUTSNIJWERK EN METAALBEWERKING IN NEDERLANDSCH-INDIE. PUBLISHER: DEBUSSY, AMSTERDAM, 1916.

where can i get the copy of this book?

14th March 2005, 03:01 AM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Book reference... For book reference, see... Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago by Albert G. Van Zonneveld Hardcover: 160 pages Publisher: Kitlv Press (July 1, 2002) ISBN: 9054500042

25th March 2005, 05:04 AM	#3
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	A picture of Bugis kerises from a 1916 Dutch Publication. Whilst we have been on Sulawesi/Bugis... From the publication - HOUTSNIJWERK EN METAALBEWERKING IN NEDERLANDSCH-INDIE. PUBLISHER: DEBUSSY, AMSTERDAM, 1916. Attached Images

18th August 2005, 03:03 AM	#7
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Naga Blades Hi John, I think Naga blades can both be a joy and frustration to collectors. From conversations I had with collectors who put a lot of faith in lore and a bit less on systematic book learning (my approach is a combination of both I guess) they have this belief that keris with Naga were meant for royals and blue bloods only. And talking about Java, such keris were probably spread around hundreds of Priyayi from your Raden Mas up to your Kanjeng Pagerans etc. Getting a good old one would be a great thing. However, the naga motif today is also one of the most mass produced pattern you get on cheap tourist blades made from Madura, with a kind of yellow metal inlay that imitates Kinatah blades. There are occassionally good newly made blades of this kind, and I think it's OK to buy them, just for the sake of keeping the craft alive, but you have people who try and pass the as older stuff. Bad. Hence the reason why I stick to Malay kerises.

27th June 2016, 06:51 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Confusion Marius, the post (#49) is dated 2005, before the keris subforum was created. This will happen now and then when a post is dredged up from the old pre warung Ethno forum.

14th March 2005, 03:11 AM	#2
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Thanks, Alam.

25th March 2005, 10:39 AM	#4
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Bugis Keris in ACM While we're on this subject, there's always one thing I wanted to ask Dave. Last month I visited the Asian Civilisations Museum across the bay from the Cavanagh bridge. I was intrigued to see one of the kerises in the display. It has a nogo blade if I'm not mistaken but it was provenanced Bugis (again, if memory serves me right). I don't know if anyone else here, especially the orang Singapure have ever noticed this particular blade (inside the Malay world gallery). Were the Bugis smiths also manufacturing blade types similar to those by the Javanese empus or was this one a trade blade? hmmm

25th March 2005, 04:49 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	That blade is a true-blue straits bugis blade, not a javanese blade. Thick, broad, robust, in full bugis glory. The naga is also not of javanese form.

19th August 2005, 03:10 AM	#10
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Hi Kai Wee, Pity I didn't bring my camera that day as ACM does allow photography without flash. The 2 old "babes" will make a transit at Singapore so probably you could take a look in person and perhaps offer some restoration recommendations prior to them moving on to Kelantan for the purpose. If they turn out well, I probably will put up pictures here or at the KampungNet.

21st June 2016, 04:34 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	I will move this to the Keris Forum.