keris and spirit

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by pakana

Are there any info for the keris with pamor Tiban? As I know, this kind of pamor is unplanned by the empu, and it had something to do with the will of Heaven for this keris..That gives a special "spiritual" meaning to the keris or no?

george

There are two types of pamor, based on the making of it. The first is -- as you said -- unplanned pamor by the empu. Yes, you may call it as "God-given pamor". (The type of pamor that Mr Haryono Haryoguritno called it as "pamor jwalana" in his book, "Keris Jawa, Between Myth and Logical Reasoning).

On the contrary, is "pamor rekan" or "engineered pamor" -- for instance: pamor ron kendhuru, lar gangsir, walang sinundukan etc. The empu was engineering so carefully the material of pamor, that the result could manifest the planned pamor. (Mr Haryono Guritno called it as "pamor anukarta")

Some unsuspected pamor, such as "raja gundhala" believed by them who believed it -- could gave certain power or good effect to the owner of the keris. Or pamor "sumber mas" (fountain of gold) -- usually the form is like a couple of layered circles in the ganja or the separated base of the keris.

That is just a tiny info on "pamor tiban"...

Ganjawulung

[pakana]

Thank you so much for the reply Penangsang and Ganjawulung.

Unfortunately Javanese is not my native language, so I don't have access to items such as Ensiclopedi Keris

george

[pakana]

Greetings keris spiritualists

I would like to share a strange incident with you, and I would like to hear your opinions/thoughts. It happend several years ago, on my first trip to Java.

During that trip I had my first keris. I bought it from a market place. I was very happy for my purchase, because I was trying to get one for sometime.

When I got back to my hotel, I put the keris on the desk of the room and went to sleep. It was a very strange night, because all night long I woke up several times with the feeling that I was shaking from inside, like I was possesed by something. That was the first, and the last time I had that kind of "visit".

Next day I had a talk with some friends that live in Indonesia, and they said that maybe it was the spirit of the empu, checking the new owner.

Any thoughts/similar incidents?

george

[pakana]

One more thing.

On my next trip,I've learned that a week after the seller sold the keris, his wife accidentally died..spooky

george

[A. G. Maisey]

Doxycycline works wonders for those shakes inside.

One 50mg tablet daily as prophylaxis.

Three 50mg tablets three times daily when the curse really starts to bite, backed up with imodium.

Good idea to stay away from sate ayam too.

[pakana]

Hello mr. Maisey,

I can understand that you are a bit of sceptic for incidents like that. I had my share in food poisoning a week later that event. So you completely deny the chance of maybe something "strange" happened? I'm sure that with your experience in keris field, you will surely witnessed strange things..

george

[A. G. Maisey]

G'day George,

Yeah, I'm a bit sceptical. Normally I would have shut up and said nothing, but I just felt like being a bit facetious.To good an opportunity to miss.Sorry.

I have witnessed one strange thing associated with keris, but it could perhaps have been rationally explained. Only that one possibly strange thing.

I have heard many,many stories of strange things associated with keris.

I have had first hand experience of repeated inexplicable occurrences that have nothing at all to do with keris.

Strange, inexplicable things can occur.

But in my experience, these strange, inexplicable things are invariably associated with a particular type of person.

I am not that type of person, and the strange , inexplicable things keep their distance.

[David]

Originally Posted by pakana

One more thing.

On my next trip,I've learned that a week after the seller sold the keris, his wife accidentally died..spooky

george

I am not sure why you would believe that this tragic event would have anything to do with your keris. Accidents happen and people die all the time. Why do you see a connection here?
If i really thought that someone died because i bought their husband's keris i would immediately return it to him.
I certainly would not completely rule out your hotel "visitation" as a paranormal event, but frankly it could have been so many other things that caused your sleepless night, especially since you admit that this is the only time this occurred in the presence of this keris. Sleepless nights, especially in strange hotel rooms far away from home are really pretty common.
It is very easy to construct any kind of paranormal thinking you like around any event. Could a long died empu be checking up on the new owner of one of the many keris he made in his lifetime. Sure, why not. But i would think that he probably has better things to do in the afterlife than that.

[pakana]

All opinions are welcome, thank you

george

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Dear George and Kerislovers,

Sometimes someone feels something is normal whilst others feel it is not normal (strange). It depends on many aspects surrounding the incident considered as "a strange thing". For me and many others, perhaps, sleepless in a hotel far away from home is quite common. However, based on his experiences, sleepless in a hotel is very strange thing for George. The factor of uneasy to sleep varies amongst person. To someone, far away from his partner is a factor. To other one, "close up" from her partner is a factor.

In my own stand, I will try to believe what George said it was strange is strange. No more and no less. Then, I will try to give second opinion whenever George started to find explanation why it was happened.

I believe George had a strange thing when he brought his new keris in the hotel. It is quite common occasion amongst collectors when they have a new member, isnt it? I mean collectors who possessing several kerises. To collector who already possessing abundant kerises, it will be different. To many stange things will become "normal thing". It is a statistical matter.

What do I still want to bring second/third opinion is when George suspected his keris' empu whom makes him sleepless. Perhaps, I agree with David.

Nevertheless, in short, George, treat your first collection as it deserves. Make your first impression on your first collection as a hint...that there is something more than you see. The rest... up to you.

warm regards,

Usman