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Old 25th July 2007, 05:32 PM   #1
David
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I don't know all that much about ivory, but AFAIK hippos are an African animal and i would think a more local material would be more likely. It looks like sea ivory to me, but better pictures would help. Possible Dugong (also known as sea cows or manatees).
The fittings look like fairly well reprossed silver. As for the loop, i agree that it doesn't look original to the ensemble.
I am very curious about these loops. Are they functional (for wearing pehaps) or merely decorative? Are they specific to a particular region or do we find them where ever the Bugis went?
Will the hilt fit down any further on the pesi. If not i would guess that either the hilt or the pendokok (or both) are later, badly fitted additions.
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Old 25th July 2007, 08:51 PM   #2
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I completely agree with David

The ukiran is probably sea ivory. About the fitting of it see the comment of David.

The loop is often seen on Bugis or Sumatran keris. AFAIK it is only seen on Sumatra. The function of it is for me unknown. I guess it is ceremonial and the cord was mostly covered with gold (suasa) or silver and dressed up with stones. But there where also more simple loops like yours. The functional use for it what I can think of is attaching the keris to the belt.

Age of a keris is very hard to tell. With this blade I wouldn't try to guess.
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Old 25th July 2007, 09:51 PM   #3
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Are the mounts tarnished silver or gilded silver (which it looks likely).

I agree with needing better pictures for the ivory - some did trade in hippo ivory in the region.
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Old 26th July 2007, 12:46 AM   #4
Alam Shah
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The wrapping to the bottom half of the sheath seems missing.

Blade-wise, a very good blade indeed, with pamor Raja Abala Raja.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Any suggestions how such a loop should be fixed ?
The loop is known as toli-toli. Normally, this type of keris is worn with a type of sash with a loop at the bottom end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henk
The loop is often seen on Bugis or Sumatran keris. AFAIK it is only seen on Sumatra. The function of it is for me unknown. I guess it is ceremonial and the cord was mostly covered with gold (suasa) or silver and dressed up with stones. But there where also more simple loops like yours. The functional use for it what I can think of is attaching the keris to the belt.
I believe the loop originated from Bugis Sulawesi. We can see it on older examples in many museums and books. Keris from Bima, Gowa... with the golden hilts etc. Bugis influence gradually grew on Sumatra, Riau-Lingga archipelago and elsewhere, so does it's keris and fittings.

The sheath cross-piece looks Malay... the hilt suggests Sumatra.
I agree that the loop is a possible later addition... but quite sometime back.
Looking at it again... basing on the hilt/hilt ring, unable to fit nicely... is it a composite piece?

Last edited by Alam Shah; 26th July 2007 at 03:28 AM. Reason: add observation...
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Old 26th July 2007, 02:10 AM   #5
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Great looking pamor; one I haven't seen before .
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Old 26th July 2007, 08:34 AM   #6
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Lot of questions and answers. thanks in advance.

- The wrapping of the sheath is intact, I will try to make some pictures in focus.

- The hilt and pendokok/selut are completely tight on the blade, no movement at all. considering the material of the hilt I am somewhat reluctant to try and get it loose. any suggestions ?

- the selut looks like solid gold, and the the mountings on the scabbard maybe gold on silver. I will go and see a goldsmith to be sure on that.

- as for the composite suggestion. it might be, but than before 1940.
and certainly not with the poorest of materials.
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Old 26th July 2007, 09:15 AM   #7
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Hello Willem,

Congrats!

Quote:
The hilt and pendokok/selut are completely tight on the blade, no movement at all. considering the material of the hilt I am somewhat reluctant to try and get it loose. any suggestions ?
The pendokok doesn't move, too?

There's a good chance that the blade is still fixed with resin: Carefully heating the base of the blade and gently trying to turn the hilt will probably allow you to remove the hilt. Go slowly - if it doesn't move, let it cool down and try repeated heating cycles. This also works if the pesi sticks to the hilt due to corrosion (rust may crack the hilt in the long run and it would be preferable to clean the pesi). However, since this piece has been in a collection for a long time (and probably not deteriorated any further since WW2) it may be questionable wether there's any real need for restoration. OTOH, it would be nice to close the gap between pendokok and blade if the hole in the hilt is long enough to completely cover the pesi. If the pesi is "too long," this would seem to be a safe sign for a composite piece.

Sharial, are you sure that the hilt is not from Sulawesi?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 26th July 2007, 09:52 AM   #8
Alam Shah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
... as for the composite suggestion. it might be, but than before 1940. and certainly not with the poorest of materials.
Agreed... that the materials are of good taste with fine worksmanship... the hilt cup, sheath wrapping and end-piece... even if it is composite. With this blade, it deserves the existing dressings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Sharial, are you sure that the hilt is not from Sulawesi?
Kai, it might or might not be,... better picture would help... I'm not certain, given pictures from several awkward position, are u?

Kind Regards,
Shahrial

Last edited by Alam Shah; 26th July 2007 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 27th July 2007, 03:15 PM   #9
Marcokeris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Great looking pamor; one I haven't seen before .
Really?
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Old 27th July 2007, 03:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
Really?
Yup .
Got any examples to show ??
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