Mystery Weapons from Bulgaria

TVV · 6th July 2007, 09:13 PM

Great photos Eftihis! It is too bad that the shmashir is in its scabbard and one cannot see the blade, but it looks shortened. Perhaps the guard is a later replacement. The variety is interesting, but to be somewhat expected when it comes to Macedonia. For example VMORO fighters bought whatever weapon they could, from cap lock rifles to Mannlichers and Enfields, and there are still specimens found in people's atticks that are so rare that one has to go to the museum of the producer to find another copy. Considering the geographic position of Macedonia and its ethnical diversity, it would only make sense that there is a diversity among the weapon forms as well.
There is an interesting mediterranean dagger on on of the photos. I think in one of Hermann Historica's catalogues a similar one is identified as from Yannina. Do you recall what its description said?
Regards,
Teodor

eftihis · 7th July 2007, 09:50 AM

Hi, i have seen a similar dagger in the book you mentioned, and i remembered it said "Yiannina" as a provenance, and i have seen another with the same attribution, but it does not look as "local" greek style. Maybe is a mediterranean dagger design that has been copied in Yiannina. This one in the photo has only a label with the name of the man it belonged to.

TVV · 7th July 2007, 09:53 PM

Thanks Eftihis.

Rumpel · 2nd March 2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Great photos Eftihis! It is too bad that the shmashir is in its scabbard and one cannot see the blade, but it looks shortened. Perhaps the guard is a later replacement.

Hi Teodor, sorry about dredging up an old thread, but I think the shamshir above may be a modified Ottoman issue sabre (see pics).

The below photo was taken by the contemporary Macedonian Greek photographer Leonidas Papazoglou, and some of his other photos show rather appealing qamas stuffed into waistbands: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...das_Papazoglou

TVV · 2nd March 2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpel

Hi Teodor, sorry about dredging up an old thread, but I think the shamshir above may be a modified Ottoman issue sabre (see pics).

The below photo was taken by the contemporary Macedonian Greek photographer Leonidas Papazoglou, and some of his other photos show rather appealing qamas stuffed into waistbands: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...das_Papazoglou

Hi Rumpel,

Thank you for finding a picture of Papazoglu with the sword - it looks to be the same sword from the museum.

However, I do not think the guard is actually a cut down from a more elaborate guard as the one on the kilidj from your post - if you look closely at the pictures of the item in the museum, you can see there is no langet going down the grip, but instead the whole thing was cast in a manner, typical of some the qamas of the period.

Best regards,
Teodor

Itaca · 5th May 2014, 08:30 PM

Hello gentlemen !
I collect military objects of the two world wars,
I really like the material Austrian WW1 . I'm Italian so I like
even things Italian , the two wars.

I have carefully read your theories , I think the dagger
Macedonian is used during the Balkan wars , however, likely that
was also used by the Bulgarians , who are close to the Macedonia
and that they had many things in common cultural and historical heritage .

Unfortunately I do not know how to explain well in English but I have many things to say ...

I show you my dagger ,This has not been cleaned by me. has the handle in a single piece of bronze, inlaid with precious wood of ebony. The blade is fastened with two rivets. The scabbard is made of wood covered with leather, it is hand made. I agree that these have not been studied very
and that these blades are always classified as Ottoman , even if they are not
Ottoman really !
I these two I bought in Albania that is close to the Macedonia and Bulgaria.
If you want more details for this dagger study well you have to ask , with no problems I'm available .

I show you the second dagger which I failed to classify , I think
which is kind of colonial ( Italian colonies / English / French etc. .. ) that is coming from Africa East or from North Africa .
The scabbard is military ....This has the sheath made with sheet iron, covered with skin. At the center of the handle which is made of bronze, has inset horn.
What do you say ?
you know better identify?

Thanks Itaca

Itaca · 8th May 2014, 08:32 PM

Do not say anything?

5th May 2014, 08:30 PM	#6
Itaca Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 6	Macedonian rebel Dagger with another dagger Hello gentlemen ! I collect military objects of the two world wars, I really like the material Austrian WW1 . I'm Italian so I like even things Italian , the two wars. I have carefully read your theories , I think the dagger Macedonian is used during the Balkan wars , however, likely that was also used by the Bulgarians , who are close to the Macedonia and that they had many things in common cultural and historical heritage . Unfortunately I do not know how to explain well in English but I have many things to say ... I show you my dagger ,This has not been cleaned by me. has the handle in a single piece of bronze, inlaid with precious wood of ebony. The blade is fastened with two rivets. The scabbard is made of wood covered with leather, it is hand made. I agree that these have not been studied very and that these blades are always classified as Ottoman , even if they are not Ottoman really ! I these two I bought in Albania that is close to the Macedonia and Bulgaria. If you want more details for this dagger study well you have to ask , with no problems I'm available . I show you the second dagger which I failed to classify , I think which is kind of colonial ( Italian colonies / English / French etc. .. ) that is coming from Africa East or from North Africa . The scabbard is military ....This has the sheath made with sheet iron, covered with skin. At the center of the handle which is made of bronze, has inset horn. What do you say ? you know better identify? Thanks Itaca Attached Images Last edited by Itaca; 5th May 2014 at 11:10 PM.

6th July 2007, 09:13 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	Great photos Eftihis! It is too bad that the shmashir is in its scabbard and one cannot see the blade, but it looks shortened. Perhaps the guard is a later replacement. The variety is interesting, but to be somewhat expected when it comes to Macedonia. For example VMORO fighters bought whatever weapon they could, from cap lock rifles to Mannlichers and Enfields, and there are still specimens found in people's atticks that are so rare that one has to go to the museum of the producer to find another copy. Considering the geographic position of Macedonia and its ethnical diversity, it would only make sense that there is a diversity among the weapon forms as well. There is an interesting mediterranean dagger on on of the photos. I think in one of Hermann Historica's catalogues a similar one is identified as from Yannina. Do you recall what its description said? Regards, Teodor

7th July 2007, 09:50 AM	#2
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 512	Hi, i have seen a similar dagger in the book you mentioned, and i remembered it said "Yiannina" as a provenance, and i have seen another with the same attribution, but it does not look as "local" greek style. Maybe is a mediterranean dagger design that has been copied in Yiannina. This one in the photo has only a label with the name of the man it belonged to.

7th July 2007, 09:53 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	Thanks Eftihis.

8th May 2014, 08:32 PM	#7
Itaca Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 6	Do not say anything?