an khanda sword

Valjhun · 29th June 2007, 11:31 PM

amazing.... one of the best khandas out there...

Are you considering to restore the padding? I will do it, if it were mine. Only the best red velvet couscions allowed

Rick · 30th June 2007, 12:08 AM

There appears to be something odd about the 'wootz' pattern ...

RobT · 30th June 2007, 05:27 AM

Hi All,
Rick's comment made me look at the pattern more closely and wonder whether it is the result of an acid etch on a wax resist rather than wootz. I have a kard whereon that technique was applied. If indeed the pattern was produced by acid etching unwatered steel, how was such a subtle pattern produced? From the looks of it, manually scraping away the resist wouldn't achieve such an intricate, random, and smoothly curved pattern of swirls (at least not cost effectively). So, if this pattern is a product of a wax resist, the question becomes, how was the resist etched to produce the pattern?
Sincerely,
RobT

CharlesS · 30th June 2007, 01:33 PM

This is certainly 'faux wootz'. Either acid etched or "waxed".

I have never understood the mentality of that(either) process as it was so time consuming and labor intensive, and often was a way of saying, "I can't afford real wootz". It seems the real thing would have actually been cheaper, but I suppose that labor and time were two things not in short supply in 19th Cent. India.

One thing for sure...it certainly shows the status and importance of a "wootz look".

Now, I have a question....I have heard these sorts of swords referred to in a variety of different ways. Is this a 'patissa' with a 'khanda' hilt, or is it a 'khanda' in general???

ward · 30th June 2007, 03:42 PM

I think if you look closely you will see some repetition in the pattern. make up a basic block stamp pour wax on and stamp it, and over stamp it. You have your pattern made up in less than 1/2 hour and then etch with acid. Once you have carved your stamp you can use it over and over, making it very cost effective

Jens Nordlunde · 30th June 2007, 04:01 PM

Hi Stefan,
Is it possible for you to get better pictures of the blade? Try outside like you did, but with a black background.

Hi Ward,
Yes I see what you mean, but this kind of ’false’ watering would wear off rather fast. I have not, in any of my books, seen described how to make ‘false’ watering, but I suppose it was done.

Rick · 30th June 2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Yes I see what you mean, but this kind of ’false’ watering would wear off rather fast. I have not, in any of my books, seen described how to make ‘false’ watering, but I suppose it was done.

Jens, if this is the case (false watering) would the lack of wear bring into question the actual age of this sword ?

Stefan, might we have the dimensions of this sword please ?

ward · 30th June 2007, 05:43 PM

It does not wear like that, if it is a parade weapon. As far as how long they have been doing this false damascus finish here is a excerpt from "Method of making Steel in the style of Damascus"

written in 1771

by Jean Jacques Perret

I have seen some hunting swords which were sold as damascus, but which I suspected not to be, in part because the blackish veins were too deep, and in part because their edges would not cut iron. Indeed their edges were so blunt and ill-shaped that they would not even cut wood. I tried to discover the method of "damascening" blades as boldly as these. After several trials I took a blade of polished steel and I covered it with a coating of wax, which I let drip from a lighted candle. I spread the wax evenly over the entire surface. Then I drew a quantity of lines in the wax, using a steel scribe which served me as a pencil. After that I poured some acid on the wax. I allowed it to bite or dissolve the steel which my "pencil" had uncovered for about an hour. I then cleaned it off, and found that I had discovered the whole secret.

30th June 2007, 05:27 AM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 550	acid? Hi All, Rick's comment made me look at the pattern more closely and wonder whether it is the result of an acid etch on a wax resist rather than wootz. I have a kard whereon that technique was applied. If indeed the pattern was produced by acid etching unwatered steel, how was such a subtle pattern produced? From the looks of it, manually scraping away the resist wouldn't achieve such an intricate, random, and smoothly curved pattern of swirls (at least not cost effectively). So, if this pattern is a product of a wax resist, the question becomes, how was the resist etched to produce the pattern? Sincerely, RobT

30th June 2007, 03:42 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I think if you look closely you will see some repetition in the pattern. make up a basic block stamp pour wax on and stamp it, and over stamp it. You have your pattern made up in less than 1/2 hour and then etch with acid. Once you have carved your stamp you can use it over and over, making it very cost effective Last edited by ward; 30th June 2007 at 04:19 PM.

30th June 2007, 05:43 PM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It does not wear like that, if it is a parade weapon. As far as how long they have been doing this false damascus finish here is a excerpt from "Method of making Steel in the style of Damascus" written in 1771 by Jean Jacques Perret I have seen some hunting swords which were sold as damascus, but which I suspected not to be, in part because the blackish veins were too deep, and in part because their edges would not cut iron. Indeed their edges were so blunt and ill-shaped that they would not even cut wood. I tried to discover the method of "damascening" blades as boldly as these. After several trials I took a blade of polished steel and I covered it with a coating of wax, which I let drip from a lighted candle. I spread the wax evenly over the entire surface. Then I drew a quantity of lines in the wax, using a steel scribe which served me as a pencil. After that I poured some acid on the wax. I allowed it to bite or dissolve the steel which my "pencil" had uncovered for about an hour. I then cleaned it off, and found that I had discovered the whole secret. Last edited by ward; 30th June 2007 at 06:49 PM.

29th June 2007, 11:31 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	amazing.... one of the best khandas out there... Are you considering to restore the padding? I will do it, if it were mine. Only the best red velvet couscions allowed

30th June 2007, 12:08 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	There appears to be something odd about the 'wootz' pattern ...

30th June 2007, 01:33 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	This is certainly 'faux wootz'. Either acid etched or "waxed". I have never understood the mentality of that(either) process as it was so time consuming and labor intensive, and often was a way of saying, "I can't afford real wootz". It seems the real thing would have actually been cheaper, but I suppose that labor and time were two things not in short supply in 19th Cent. India. One thing for sure...it certainly shows the status and importance of a "wootz look". Now, I have a question....I have heard these sorts of swords referred to in a variety of different ways. Is this a 'patissa' with a 'khanda' hilt, or is it a 'khanda' in general???

30th June 2007, 04:01 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Stefan, Is it possible for you to get better pictures of the blade? Try outside like you did, but with a black background. Hi Ward, Yes I see what you mean, but this kind of ’false’ watering would wear off rather fast. I have not, in any of my books, seen described how to make ‘false’ watering, but I suppose it was done.