Help with the stamps please

[Jim McDougall]

The mark on the left is a trident and this is seen on tulwar blades in the same location in the center, upper third of the blade usually. The later examples of this from 19th c. seem to have become more stylized and look more like a bird foot. I have seen early tulwar blades with this trident and in the upper forte near the hilt a cartouche usually stamped in Urdu script.

Jens, I think in Rawson there is a tulwar with the markings described but cannot recall what illustration it was. Also, in Egerton, it seems in the chapter concerning Gujerat, there is detail on a tribal group who have a great deal of traditional focus on the katar. It is said, if memory serves, that they swear oaths, legal matters etc. on the katar, and that any failure or 'breach of the contract' would compell the swearer, even unto suicide for such dishonor. I recall in research years ago that I had considered the possibility that such blades bearing the katar stamp may have had to do with this tribe. The reason I am suggesting this to you is in hopes you might find that reference in Egerton as I do not have access to it, and I would be interested in your opinion. Its horrible without the books !!
In most cases the tulwars these markings turn up on seem to be from Rajasthan regions, and I had also considered Sikh provenance but no convincing support for that has become known to me.

All the best,
Jim

[Battara]

The trident is one of the symbols of Shiva in India.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Jim,

I did not find the part about any tribal group in Gujerat, nor did I find any katar stamp in The Indian Sword (Danish edition), but I found half a trisula, page 154 #65 – see the picture. The text does not mention the blade, but says that the hilt is Lahuri type early 19th century, and the sword belongs to the V&A Museum.

[Berkley]

KÁTHIAWÁR

The Kattees of Guzerat carry a sword, shield, and spear. The latter is about 8 ft. long, and is made so slender as to break when thrown at the enemy, to whom it thus becomes useless.
Till the establishment of the British supremacy in 1835, no deed or agreement was considered binding unless guaranteed by the mark of the “ Katár,” and on the failure or breach of a contract they inflicted “trágá,” on themselves, (i.e. committed suicide) or, in extreme cases, carried out the murder of relations with that weapon. The Bards of Guzerat were hereditary heralds, and guardians of “trágá.” They seldom appeared without the Katár, a representation of which was scrawled beside their signatures, and rudely engraved on their monumental stones.
“Trágá” as generally performed extends no farther than a cut with the “Katár” in the arm, and those people who are in the habit of becoming security generally have such cuts from the elbow downward.

Egerton , Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour, p.137, citing in footnote “Trans. Of the Lit. Soc. Of Bombay. 1813. Forbes’ Ras Mala, p. 558 (new edition) 1878.”

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you very much Berkley - you have been a great help.
Should you have any more 'points' please let us know.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jens,
Thank you very much, that picture is the exact sword I was thinking of!!! I couldnt remember which source, but I've seen it in several places.

Berkeley!!
Nicely done, thats the exact reference I was trying to recall.Thank you so much for posting the paragraph and citing...very much appreciated!!

Battara, thanks for the note on the Shiva connection for the trisula.

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

So back to the original topic, was this deeply stamped trisula marking that seems to occur basically in the same location on Indian blades, an armoury mark or other? The occurence of markings on Indian blades that may distinctively identify armouries or arsenals has been suggested frequently but the only key identification seems to be items from Bikaner. It has been hoped that markings such as these 'trisulas' might provide clues to armoury identification, but that has proven considerably elusive.

As I have noted, I have seen the trisula marking in circular cartouche in the same location on a tulwar blade that was quite heavy and likely of latter 17th century. In the same type cartouche bear the hilt, as shown in the illustration Jens has presented, the inscription appeared in Urdu. As I also indicated earlier, later blades appear on tulwars of the 19th c. with a more stylized trisula with thinner stamp, and these seem to be of Rajasthan manufacture.

In the case of Alex's blade, with the trisula as well as the katar, I have wondered before with another sword with similar stamps, whether the weapon might have been associated with the Kattee's of Gujerat ( and I thank Berkley again for finding the reference I had lost). If the katar was of such importance, and clearly the enforcement of thier tradition was so strongly represented by it, then certainly such an insignia might be placed a weapon intended for such action. It almost seems that it appears in a subordinate position to the apparantly well established symbol of Shiva, the trisula, which of course occurs in variations previously described.

I am wondering whether the trisula, though obviously a religiously themed symbol, may have been adopted in a sense as a mark of quality or power, much in the same sense as the well known 'sickle marks' (termed 'gurda' on Caucasian blades) and of course trade blades from other centers.

Perhaps armoury markings in the parlance we have considered, as found in the regulation or issue weapons of many countries, may not apply in the same manner here. It does seem that collected and inventoried weapons however do reflect numeric or categoric markings, such as found in the Bikaner weapons.

The 'umbrella' marking or stamp sometimes seen on Indian blades it seems generally held to signify 'royalty' or high rank, and the examples seen seem to hold somewhat similar connotation as the trisula stamps, despite the elusive nature of that connotation.

As always, it would be great to hear more ideas on these stamps and on thier possible meaning, as well as thoughts on the armoury concept. Would armouries have had makers to produce thier own weapons, or would they have used such a stamp to approve the quality or acceptance of the weapon ( such as the 'proof' marks on regulation weapons)?
What about the katar stamp? Could that designate this a Kattee weapon? Would the stamp have been added later subordinate to the 'quality' or symbolic trisula?

Hoping to hear more

All the best,
Jim