Item for comments

tom hyle · 28th February 2005, 09:30 AM

Interesting. Is the handle metal-covered?

delor · 28th February 2005, 03:24 PM

It's metal..
Here are some closeups.
Any ideas ?

Yannis · 28th February 2005, 03:41 PM

I think it is a version of Marocan koummya. We have discuss something similar recently.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96

Conogre · 28th February 2005, 03:47 PM

The hilt appears to be pewter and cast onto the blade, while the style is something that I've not seen before, both in the blade shape and the pommel treatment.
The floral pattern to the icizing in the hilt, to me, seems to have an Indian or SE Asian flair to it, with the 2nd area bringing to mind Thailand.
My suggestion is that it's a paper knife/letter opener or else specialty knife for some sort of soft food particualrly because I don't see any signs of a taper from the spine to the edge, which makes me ask instead of assuming: is the blade flat or does it taper from the spine to a thinner edge?
Likewise, is it sharp or only semi sharp?
After looking at it again, the script before the design on the blade and the pommel shape made me think that I'd better not rule out the perrenial favorite for unusual pieces, Morocco, as the end does bear a distinct similarity to the Jambiyas with the wide, Napoleonic hat flavor.

Mike

delor · 1st March 2005, 01:50 PM

Hello Mike,

the spine goes from 3mm width to 0.3 mm at the point, with a thinner edge, and it is sharp. Total length 39.5 cm, blade length 21 cm.

I'm glad to see that this "dagger" looks quite unusual for you too ! By the way thanks a lot to everyone, this is a very interesting discussion !

Regards,
Bernard

Conogre · 1st March 2005, 05:25 PM

This last bit of information probably takes it out of the paper knife/letter opener category then, to the point that I'm beginning to think that you have a very nice and unusual jambya there, although I still think it probably has a Morocco origin.....if the blade is sharp on the top edge only back to the "angle" this would tend to support the real weapon probability/possibility, although it wouldn't be an absolute necessity and after reading the hilt descriptions I'm beginning to suspect that it's silver sheet or silvered brass applied flyssa fashion over a wooden core.
If so that would make the ricasso/ferule area more understandable too.
Definitely strange enough to fit in with my "lost boys" as I tend to think of the unusual variants/reincarnated captures, with the sad part being that so many collectors insist that weapons need to be EXACTLY like a known stereotype/prototype......this seems particularly strange and sad to me in cases where there is little information on the known originals or else the type is known from a very few examples as many truly valuable and rare weapons are probably consigned to the novelty/tourist/fake categories, thus little valued and often destroyed or lost to history/posterity.
Mike

tom hyle · 2nd March 2005, 01:38 PM

Now, Mike, you know very well that if it isn't just like the one in the book it simply must be a fake

Ha ha!
Actually, Conogre and I are on the same page here; I can't tell you how many collectors and dealers I've encountered who say "I don't know what this is; I've never seen anything like it" as an expression of disinterest, while I say it with wonder.
One guy told me that about a Collins 1005 while he had 3 others under his counter about 7 feet away for $140 each

"I don't know what this is...." was his excuse to try to get it off me cheaty-cheap.

Andrew · 2nd March 2005, 02:52 PM

I wonder if this knife deserves entry into the famous "steaknives of the world"?

28th February 2005, 03:24 PM	#2
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	New pictures It's metal.. Here are some closeups. Any ideas ? Attached Images

28th February 2005, 03:47 PM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The hilt appears to be pewter and cast onto the blade, while the style is something that I've not seen before, both in the blade shape and the pommel treatment. The floral pattern to the icizing in the hilt, to me, seems to have an Indian or SE Asian flair to it, with the 2nd area bringing to mind Thailand. My suggestion is that it's a paper knife/letter opener or else specialty knife for some sort of soft food particualrly because I don't see any signs of a taper from the spine to the edge, which makes me ask instead of assuming: is the blade flat or does it taper from the spine to a thinner edge? Likewise, is it sharp or only semi sharp? After looking at it again, the script before the design on the blade and the pommel shape made me think that I'd better not rule out the perrenial favorite for unusual pieces, Morocco, as the end does bear a distinct similarity to the Jambiyas with the wide, Napoleonic hat flavor. Mike Last edited by Conogre; 28th February 2005 at 03:52 PM. Reason: afterthought

28th February 2005, 09:30 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Interesting. Is the handle metal-covered?

28th February 2005, 03:41 PM	#3
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I think it is a version of Marocan koummya. We have discuss something similar recently. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96

1st March 2005, 01:50 PM	#5
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	Hello Mike, the spine goes from 3mm width to 0.3 mm at the point, with a thinner edge, and it is sharp. Total length 39.5 cm, blade length 21 cm. I'm glad to see that this "dagger" looks quite unusual for you too ! By the way thanks a lot to everyone, this is a very interesting discussion ! Regards, Bernard

1st March 2005, 05:25 PM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	This last bit of information probably takes it out of the paper knife/letter opener category then, to the point that I'm beginning to think that you have a very nice and unusual jambya there, although I still think it probably has a Morocco origin.....if the blade is sharp on the top edge only back to the "angle" this would tend to support the real weapon probability/possibility, although it wouldn't be an absolute necessity and after reading the hilt descriptions I'm beginning to suspect that it's silver sheet or silvered brass applied flyssa fashion over a wooden core. If so that would make the ricasso/ferule area more understandable too. Definitely strange enough to fit in with my "lost boys" as I tend to think of the unusual variants/reincarnated captures, with the sad part being that so many collectors insist that weapons need to be EXACTLY like a known stereotype/prototype......this seems particularly strange and sad to me in cases where there is little information on the known originals or else the type is known from a very few examples as many truly valuable and rare weapons are probably consigned to the novelty/tourist/fake categories, thus little valued and often destroyed or lost to history/posterity. Mike

2nd March 2005, 01:38 PM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Now, Mike, you know very well that if it isn't just like the one in the book it simply must be a fake Ha ha! Actually, Conogre and I are on the same page here; I can't tell you how many collectors and dealers I've encountered who say "I don't know what this is; I've never seen anything like it" as an expression of disinterest, while I say it with wonder. One guy told me that about a Collins 1005 while he had 3 others under his counter about 7 feet away for $140 each "I don't know what this is...." was his excuse to try to get it off me cheaty-cheap.

2nd March 2005, 02:52 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I wonder if this knife deserves entry into the famous "steaknives of the world"?