where in the Sahara?

Conogre · 28th February 2005, 02:12 AM

LOL! When I say "identified" I'd pretty well written it off as you described (although MUCH more general **grin**) although I was always mystified by the T-spine as is found in khyber knives and chooras until I noticed that the ball on the end was steel on the umpteenth cleaning and finally looked at the throat as well.....yep, steel and VERY distinctive!!!
It's a French bayonet from the 1860's that's been rehilted and the scabbard wrapped in nicely tooled brass as is the tribal fashion.
Although there's no way to be certain, I suspect that one of the Legionaires didn't make it back from patrol and this is his weapon in another incarnation, somewhat like the choora/karud in another current thread.
I didn't feel too bad about it though, as I'd bought it from one of the better known and larger Brittish dealers who'd also missed the give aways, as an "unknown African dagger".
The button is what made me scritinize the piece that started this thread so closely to see if there was any chance of a similar origin, but this doesn't seem to be the case without a minute inspection.
Mike

Jim McDougall · 28th February 2005, 05:12 AM

Hi Mike,
Its like you said on the other thread, these pieces in 2nd or third incarnation are old warriors with stories to tell!! (like us

!!
Every time I see these Saharan weapons reincarnated with French blades I think of that cartoon 'the lost patrol'

I think I can really relate for some reason.
Yours dagger is really a nice one though. I found about these through Buttin when researching those nebulous 'Zanzibar' swords, which interestingly are usually found with these narrow bayonet blades. It was surprising to me to discover these were actually another version of these Moroccan daggers.
All the best,
Jim

Conogre · 28th February 2005, 06:36 AM

Thank you again for the information, which is more appreciated than you realize, but it raises, to me at least, another question that I've never seen answered beyond evasion.
With weapons scavenging and re-using going back as far as recorded history, doesn't that in fact make this an s'boula with a French blade?
Captured pieces were often thought to contain the essense of the enemy, sometimes even including extraodinary courage and bravery, thus held in higher esteem than a locally smithed weapon and when it's converted to a form of the local favorite weapon to boot, then the transmogrification seems logical and complete to me.
Then again, I've never been accused of linnear thinking anyways! **grin**
Thank you again,
Mike

Yannis · 28th February 2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conogre

It's a French bayonet from the 1860's that's been rehilted and the scabbard wrapped in nicely tooled brass as is the tribal fashion.

It must be earlier. As I know French bayonets of 1860's had the form of yataghan.

28th February 2005, 02:12 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	LOL! When I say "identified" I'd pretty well written it off as you described (although MUCH more general grin) although I was always mystified by the T-spine as is found in khyber knives and chooras until I noticed that the ball on the end was steel on the umpteenth cleaning and finally looked at the throat as well.....yep, steel and VERY distinctive!!! It's a French bayonet from the 1860's that's been rehilted and the scabbard wrapped in nicely tooled brass as is the tribal fashion. Although there's no way to be certain, I suspect that one of the Legionaires didn't make it back from patrol and this is his weapon in another incarnation, somewhat like the choora/karud in another current thread. I didn't feel too bad about it though, as I'd bought it from one of the better known and larger Brittish dealers who'd also missed the give aways, as an "unknown African dagger". The button is what made me scritinize the piece that started this thread so closely to see if there was any chance of a similar origin, but this doesn't seem to be the case without a minute inspection. Mike

28th February 2005, 05:12 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Hi Mike, Its like you said on the other thread, these pieces in 2nd or third incarnation are old warriors with stories to tell!! (like us !! Every time I see these Saharan weapons reincarnated with French blades I think of that cartoon 'the lost patrol' I think I can really relate for some reason. Yours dagger is really a nice one though. I found about these through Buttin when researching those nebulous 'Zanzibar' swords, which interestingly are usually found with these narrow bayonet blades. It was surprising to me to discover these were actually another version of these Moroccan daggers. All the best, Jim

28th February 2005, 06:36 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Thank you again for the information, which is more appreciated than you realize, but it raises, to me at least, another question that I've never seen answered beyond evasion. With weapons scavenging and re-using going back as far as recorded history, doesn't that in fact make this an s'boula with a French blade? Captured pieces were often thought to contain the essense of the enemy, sometimes even including extraodinary courage and bravery, thus held in higher esteem than a locally smithed weapon and when it's converted to a form of the local favorite weapon to boot, then the transmogrification seems logical and complete to me. Then again, I've never been accused of linnear thinking anyways! grin Thank you again, Mike