keris and spirit

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Thank you, Alan & Michel, for sharing stories and experiences. To me, your stories broden my knowledge of keris.

Another story I would like to share. In 2005, I visited Empu Djeno in Yogyakarta. Some people believed that he was the last Empu left in the modern Yogyakarta. At that time, I ordered him to make a keris for me. Expected, that keris would be finished up at the end of the year 2008. Unfortunately, few months ago, I got bad news that Empu Djeno passed away. Now, nothing I can do for knowing whether the keris has finished or not, because, at this moment, I live in Africa.

Even till now, I am still eager to find a small meteorite for keris material. Friends, can you inform me where I can get a genuine meteorite.

Alan, as a pupil of late Empu Suparman, would you please to share your experiences in making a keris, especially, the untold ritual process? Thank you in advance.

[A. G. Maisey]

Forgive me Raden, but I do not think that I can comply with your request.

The physical process of making a keris is well documented, and I do not think that my repetition of it would serve any purpose, however if you have any specific queries on any particular part of the process, I am willing to try to answer your specific question.

Regarding ritual and mental preparation, I would prefer not to make any comment at all. I am sure that if you reflect upon this you will understand why.

[kai]

Hello Raden,

Even till now, I am still eager to find a small meteorite for keris material. Friends, can you inform me where I can get a genuine meteorite.

Obtaining meteorite of the right quality is pretty easy these days. Once you know what you need exactly, just check ebay/etc. and your bring your wallet.

However, the major problem will likely be to find a skilled pandai keris who is able and willing to work with meteorite material...

I'd recommend to check out old threads on this forum like this one:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2033

Use the search function:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?

Don't forget to also tap the old forum:
http://www.vikingsword.com/cgi-bin/s...ntro&default=1

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001122.html

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Iron/nickel meteorite is readily available. I was just at a Gem & Mineral show this past weekend and the going rate seemed to be somewhere around .32 cents a gram. That's about $143 USD a pound. I have no idea just how much material you would need to create a keris with all meteorite pamor, but it wouldn't be too outrageous. However...Kai makes a good point. Finding a skilled keris smith who could work the material correctly might be more difficult.
Raden, i believe that even in 2005 most if not all of the work was being done by Empu Djeno's apprentices, with him merely supervising. It is very possible that your keris is still in process. You might want to try to make contact to find out. I assume that if you ordered a keris that some money must have changed hands.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

David, Alan & Kai

Let me express happiness before continuing the discussion. This morning, finally, I got the cell number of Mr. Sungkowo, a foster son of Empu Djeno. He informed me that my commisioned keris had finished before Empu Djeno passed away. He will deliver this commisioned keris to my house in Yogyakarta tomorrow morning. Simply, I am very happy to know about it.

Alan, your comments have very deep meanings. Okay, I am going to contemplate to grasp what exactly messages you want to deliver.

Kai, I have open threads you reccomended. Sigh... long, but fruitful. Thank you.

David, yes, you are right. Considering his age dan health, Empu Djeno said that he would be assisted by apprentices, especially his foster son, Sungkowo. The main role of Empu Djeno is in supervision, in final steps and, most important for me, in ritual aspects. I agreed with those preconditions.

According to meteorite, the long threads I read (recommended by Kai) has opened broder my knowlegde of keris. However, I am still interested to find meteorite which is possibly used as material for keris. Do you think the meteorite you saw past weekend is "the good" one? One pound is equivalent to how many grams? It is said that to make a kris need around 200 grams. Moreover, instead of using single source of meteorite, perhaps it will be wiser to use two or more sources. Even, now I don't know to whom I can commision
a very fine "court" keris.

[David]

If i recall correctly there are approximately 28 grams in an ounce and there are 16 ounces in in a pound. 2.2 pounds equals a kilogram. I am sure there must be a simple conversion equation for this.
At .32 cents a gram a 200 gram meteorite would only be about $64 USD so that's not really that bad is 200 grams is all you need. I don't know for sure if the type of meteorite i saw this past weekend is ideal for pamor, but it was very dense and highly magnetic.
You can easily find it of eBay, but i am afraid you won't find any Pandai there.

[kai]

Hello Raden,

finally, I got the cell number of Mr. Sungkowo, a foster son of Empu Djeno. He informed me that my commisioned keris had finished before Empu Djeno passed away. He will deliver this commisioned keris to my house in Yogyakarta tomorrow morning.

Congratulations!

I am still interested to find meteorite which is possibly used as material for keris. Do you think the meteorite you saw past weekend is "the good" one? One pound is equivalent to how many grams? It is said that to make a kris need around 200 grams. Moreover, instead of using single source of meteorite, perhaps it will be wiser to use two or more sources.

I certainly didn't want to discourage you!

Most meteorites found are small, so you'll most likely have to get a bunch.

You'll want meteorites with a high nickel content. If you know the area it has been collected from, you can search for a published analysis (most meteorites are bits and pieces from larger "mother meteorites" which helps to extrapolate).

Solyom & Solyom mention 50g pure nickel used for their kris. Of course, the content in meteorites is lower and they may possibly need to be forged together with iron and almost certainly extensively refined by repeated forging to obtain malleable metal for pamor work, so you'll need to account for considerable loss of material before the actual blade can be worked on...

BTW, some modern knife makers have also experimented with meteorites as material AFAIK. An Internet search may give you additional hints to avoid possible pit-falls, etc.

Even, now I don't know to whom I can commision
a very fine "court" keris.

Am I correct to assume that Mr. Sungkowo will have received extensive teachings also in the mystical/ritual aspects during Empu Djeno's last years?

Maybe Alan can offer some more suggestions?

Regards,
Kai

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Friends,

I got a private message. Perhaps, this message was from one of you. I am afraid I can not open it. So, would you please to reemail me through this following email address: oosmaand@yahoo.com. Thank you.

Kai, firstly thank you. Secondly, of course, meteorites will be used only as a tiny part of Keris. My concern is, at least, there will be extraterrestrial content. Even, because of lack of technology, the empu/Smith cannot forge it, then becoming "pamor mungul", it doesn' matter for me.

I have never bought anything through eBay. Is it difficult? Can I pay through Western Union? Now, I don't even have a bank account in Africa. I save money "uder the pillow". Yes, this is Africa. But I enjoy the rest. And, in which eBay, where can I get good quality and reasonable price of meteorite?

As a know, your assumption is right. Smith/Empu Djeno said that he had transferred most of his knowledge to Sungkowo. However, I have never met personally with "Smith" Sungkowo. Morever, I do not see his fully own creation, either. Perhaps, for my own collection, I am quite selective. Usually, I don't buy unstandard Keris such as "nerjang landep, pegat wojo, tugel pesi (does anyone give english translation for these terms, please? I want to learn English, too)"

David, please give me the eBay address of the dense and highly magnetic meteorite you mentioned. Thank you.

[pakana]

Hello dear kerislovers,

First, I was happy to read the new thread by Raden.Most threads in this forum deal with the technical aspect of keris, and very few about the mystical one.Even when I post a question about that matter, no one bothers to reply!!

Of course this is a forum that the major part of the people that participate are westerners, and us westerners have a more realistic approach in spiritual matters, comparing with the Eastern people. I can understand that because my country Greece is at the middle point between West and East. So we have an attitude very pragmatic, and at the same time metaphisical

Maybe a lot of people here afraid to put down their experiences in the mystical side of keris, with the fear of maybe be misunderstood and laughed of. Or maybe they DO have incidents assosiated with keris, but they refuse to share because of some oath or something.

But I think that it is wrong to separate the pragmatic and the mystical side of keris, because these are one. Don't forget that keris were used more as a ritual object, and less as a stabing weapon.

George

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

David, please give me the eBay address of the dense and highly magnetic meteorite you mentioned. Thank you.

eBay USA: http://www.ebay.com/

You can search "canyon diablo". This is an iron meteorite.

Info about this meteorite:
http://www.alaska.net/~meteor/CDinfo.htm