Swords a la Portuguese

[fernando]

In fact, Rainer Daehnhardt has bought that rare navigator's sword at the auction, and even another one, also taken from a tomb, and in a very bad excavated condition. So now he has three specimens, so many as those existing in Spain. As Mark says, arms collecting is a confined circuit. Anyway this man is quite a character, his collection inventory is measured by the thousand multiple. Given the fact that Philip has his famous book Homens Espadas e Tomates but the texts are in Portuguese, and also that i have just posed Mr. Raehnhardt some ( layman ) questions on this subject, let me here try and offer a couple coments to your remarks.
Fernando's sword has rounded terminals to the principal quillons that are related to the testicles, whereas Gonzalo's hilt has flattened ends.
The version of Gran Capitan de Cordoba was in fact the most used style by Portuguese, Spaniards and Italians. Eventualy, and with my respects to Antonio Cejunior, the fifth picture in the above shown Antonio's page, a 1500's navigator sword, is quoted in Daehnhardt's book as being of Venetian origin.The version with the round quillons (guardas or quartões ) appears to be a Portuguese exclusive, mostly used and developed in the Portuguese strongholds in Africa. Known as colhona by rank and file, it was listed in inventories as Espada Preta de Bordo ( Board black sword ). They were painted black, to avoid rust and light reflexion, and they were considered ( also) for naval use. Outstandingly in some specimens, the round quillons are found quite sharpened, which sugests that these parts were also used as weapons for close combat.
It's interesting to note that the colonial imitations have much smaller pommels than their European predecessors.
European specimens were in fact of highly noticeable superior quality, but in colonial pieces some differences could be noticed between those made by Portuguese smiths detached to Africa, like to the Fort of São Jorge da Mina, and those made by Indigenous imitators, like those from Congo, who kept making them till a much later period. The tangs could just be bent at the pommel end, and not riveted, as also other finishing details would be neglected, like the pommel size. However the blades could be of similar quality, as all imported from Spain and Germany, which makes it harder to distinguish one from the other.
French writers on the subject maintain that they were designed this way as "blade catchers"
Actually Daehnhardt also quotes this possibility.

Hi Mark,
Ablout your observation:
To be fully sincere, I find that the relationship between this kind of guards and the so-called nimcha and Zanzibar swords deserves a deeper study
Daehnhardt sugests that Portuguese influence extends from the Morocan Nimcha to the Cingalese Kastane.
BTW, I must warn you that, in the book i have sugested and provided the link, the only crab swords shown are those in the pictures i have posted above. The many others are of different weaponry.
On the other hand, Homens Espadas e Tomates is well within this area of Discoveries Swords, having already sold several thousand copies ( some six editions from three different editors ) and costs something like 20 euros.
If i manage to deal with my wild scanner, i will send you copy of some pages, for you to have an idea of how interesting it is for you ... or not.
Kind regards
fernando

[fernando]

The sword belonging to El Gran Capitan is indeed a "the luxe" piece and kept in an fantastic good condition. On the contrary, the sword atributed ( but not assured ) to Pedro Alcaro Cabral, Brazil discoverer, is well excavated, broken in two halves, and with a missing tip. This is the best achieveable picture, from the Silvas auction catalogue, together with an overall silhouete,from the Daehnhardt book.

[Marc]

I’m trying to get a hold of Nobre’s book, the only problem is that the editorial has his online shop built on a non-secure server. There’s no way I’m going to send my credit card details over such a connection. I contacted them, let’s see if we can work something out.

Speaking of which… I would also be interested, indeed, in getting “Homens Espadas e Tomates”, could we arrange something? If you have anything in mind, please, contact me via PM and we’ll see what can be done. In any event, thank you very much for your offer.

Regarding your comments…



Yes, I agree that the swords with the rounded quillion finials are exclusively Portugese, or from Portugese-controlled lands. But:

the fifth picture in the above shown Antonio's page, a 1500's navigator sword, is quoted in Daehnhardt's book as being of Venetian origin

If you’re referring to this one:



I think it’s also Portugese, for what I can gather from the picture. It only lacks the rounded quillion finials, but there’s plenty of other elements, specially the proportions of the different elements, that relate it with the “colhona”. If Mr. Daehnhardt has any additional information that makes him believe otherwise, I would love to know it…



On the other hand, the last sword:



it’s indeed of a less specific type, possibly Iberian, from the Spanish kingdoms in Italy or from other Italian sources. Can’t be more specific without more data.

Daehnhardt sugests that Portuguese influence extends from the Morocan Nimcha to the Cingalese Kastane.

Well, and I suggest that, here, the full extent of the word “influence” would then become the core of a much deep, long and intense debate…

By the way, thank you for the warning about the number of “colhonas” in Nobre’s book, but, to be sincere, I’m interested in everything it has to say about Portugese weapons in general. There’s so little written about them, and, If you ask me, it’s a bit fallacious to pretend to study “Spanish” weapons without at least being somewhat familiar with those of our closest neighbours



Thanks again, Fernando. A nice discussion.

[fernando]

Right Marc, you have a PM
fernando

[RRSAND]

It may look a bit weird, to "ressurect" a 10 year old post, but... Information on this is scarce.
What do you think of this (it was found in Angola, in the 60's, and i recently aquired it)?
Sorry about the quality of the photos, but i don´t have my "real" camera with me...

[Battara]

Moving this to the European section. Probably get better responses there.

[Gonzalo G]

I'm not a consoisseur on this kind of weapons, but I will express some ideas, meanwhile others, better informed, gives his or her opinions. The work seems very rough, as if it was made in a colony overseas. Like some of the so-called "colonial rapiers", made in America instead Europe. The fullers on the ricasso are unusual, as the pommel. Flatted pommels with perforations and a small central bar can be found on Portuguese swords of this type, and this pommel in certain way remainds them, but only in a certain way. The endings of the guards does not present the typical circular flat form of the Portuguese boarding swords from the 15th Century. They are more stylized, but this also was not unusual on this swords, as seen in the example above in the post from Marc. The perforations on the ring guards seem to correspond to stems (pitons), a sort of defenses which now are lacking, probably because of a bad hot-welding work. I don´t have specifics on the forging capabilities of the natives of Angola in the 17th Century (if the date on the blade is correct), but this sword can be a copy of the Portuguese boarding sword made by a local blacksmith, Portuguese or native, but a bungler.

[RobertGuy]

Is the red colouration in the photographs an artifact or is there really red active rust on this blade? This is something I would not expect to see on a blade of this age.

[RRSAND]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

I'm not a consoisseur on this kind of weapons, but I will express some ideas, meanwhile others, better informed, gives his or her opinions. The work seems very rough, as if it was made in a colony overseas. Like some of the so-called "colonial rapiers", made in America instead Europe. The fullers on the ricasso are unusual, as the pommel. Flatted pommels with perforations and a small central bar can be found on Portuguese swords of this type, and this pommel in certain way remainds them, but only in a certain way. The endings of the guards does not present the typical circular flat form of the Portuguese boarding swords from the 15th Century. They are more stylized, but this also was not unusual on this swords, as seen in the example above in the post from Marc. The perforations on the ring guards seem to correspond to stems (pitons), a sort of defenses which now are lacking, probably because of a bad hot-welding work. I don´t have specifics on the forging capabilities of the natives of Angola in the 17th Century (if the date on the blade is correct), but this sword can be a copy of the Portuguese boarding sword made by a local blacksmith, Portuguese or native, but a bungler.

Well, thank you!
And, let's say that everything you wrote exactly matches what i think about this... I didn't write anything because i am not a specialist (not even a "real" collector, sadly), and i didn't want to probably make a fool of myself. But i did some research (not easy to find information on this) and these are my thoughts exactly, i have nothing to add to your comment!
The fullers on the ricasso actually puzzle me, they are not even metallic , but made of some brittle material i couldn't identify.
The blade looks like it was repaired/altered at some point. Almost like it was "reforged", there are some "seams", starting from the middle of the blade to the poin...

RobertGuy, well, the oxidation is not as active as it looks to be, the photos were taken with flash, and that really brightens the orange, but yes, this is quite corroded. Truth is it was found in the open, and worse, on a beach, exposed to salt water for who knows how long...