Decoration on Indian hilts

Jeff D · 24th February 2005, 04:14 PM

Thanks Jens, is there any way you can show us the key to the flowers?

Thanks
Jeff

Jens Nordlunde · 24th February 2005, 04:48 PM

Yes, he does show objects and write the name of the flowers, but don't be surprised if I show other thinga than hilts and mounts, when explaning which flowers it is.

Jens

Mare Rosu · 24th February 2005, 08:41 PM

JENS
This is the hilt of the Mysore dagger a Pesh Kabz,
Would you please tell me what the flowers are? The end of the hilt as you can see has 6 petals on the flower while the sides of the hilt have only 4 petals, but all the petals look alike to me..

You asked in the Magnetic Weapons thread about the hilt. I do think it is solid as it is very heavy. I also think it is brass gold plated. The green stone, in the end of the hilt, is the replacement Peridot.
Gene

Jens Nordlunde · 24th February 2005, 09:43 PM

Gene, thank you for a sleepless night

. I cant tell you at pressent, but I will return to morrow - hopefully with an answer - or at least a guess.
This is all very difficult, but if we can pin point the flowers we are quite a step further. Flowers, colours and animals were not only decoration - they had their own meaning beyond the decorative thing.

Jens

Jens Nordlunde · 25th February 2005, 04:25 PM

Gene, I still don't know, but I am looking into it, and when I know I will let you know. Remember that flowers cut in the steel, are less likely to have many details, whereas hilts cast in cire perdy or enamelled hilts have far more details.
To study Indian textiles with flowers can be a big help, as the mane of the flowers are often given.
Notice that Crysanthemum Indicum is not the same Chrysanthemum as the one you see in Japanese and Chinese decorations.
The decoration shown is, to the best of my knowledge Roses and made in cire perdy.

Jens Nordlunde · 25th February 2005, 04:27 PM

Jeff, it is not very precise, but I hope it helps a little.

Plate 6. The flowers on both hilts are the Chrysanthemum Indicum. The Tiger and Lion are always proper terminations for Indian swords. The Hakim Shahi hilt (b) is of the ordinary Indian form.

Jens Nordlunde · 25th February 2005, 04:30 PM

Plate 7. The sword hilt (a) has a pistol shaped head such as is more often used for daggers. The flowers are the Lily and Chrysanthemum Indicum. Roses, Lilies, and buds of another flower enrich the hilt (d), which is suitable for an English straight sword. It has a knuckle-guard.
Name of enameller Hari Singh.

ariel · 25th February 2005, 04:31 PM

Any flower with thorns is a rose.
Any flower without thorns is a tulip.
This classification served me rather well over the years: my wife had to take full responsibility fot the flower bed and I am not asked to get involved.

24th February 2005, 08:41 PM	#3
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Flowers on hilt JENS This is the hilt of the Mysore dagger a Pesh Kabz, Would you please tell me what the flowers are? The end of the hilt as you can see has 6 petals on the flower while the sides of the hilt have only 4 petals, but all the petals look alike to me.. You asked in the Magnetic Weapons thread about the hilt. I do think it is solid as it is very heavy. I also think it is brass gold plated. The green stone, in the end of the hilt, is the replacement Peridot. Gene Attached Images

25th February 2005, 04:25 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Gene, I still don't know, but I am looking into it, and when I know I will let you know. Remember that flowers cut in the steel, are less likely to have many details, whereas hilts cast in cire perdy or enamelled hilts have far more details. To study Indian textiles with flowers can be a big help, as the mane of the flowers are often given. Notice that Crysanthemum Indicum is not the same Chrysanthemum as the one you see in Japanese and Chinese decorations. The decoration shown is, to the best of my knowledge Roses and made in cire perdy. Attached Images

25th February 2005, 04:27 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Jeff, it is not very precise, but I hope it helps a little. Plate 6. The flowers on both hilts are the Chrysanthemum Indicum. The Tiger and Lion are always proper terminations for Indian swords. The Hakim Shahi hilt (b) is of the ordinary Indian form. Attached Images

25th February 2005, 04:30 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Plate 7. The sword hilt (a) has a pistol shaped head such as is more often used for daggers. The flowers are the Lily and Chrysanthemum Indicum. Roses, Lilies, and buds of another flower enrich the hilt (d), which is suitable for an English straight sword. It has a knuckle-guard. Name of enameller Hari Singh. Attached Images

24th February 2005, 04:14 PM	#1
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Thanks Jens, is there any way you can show us the key to the flowers? Thanks Jeff

24th February 2005, 04:48 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes, he does show objects and write the name of the flowers, but don't be surprised if I show other thinga than hilts and mounts, when explaning which flowers it is. Jens

24th February 2005, 09:43 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Gene, thank you for a sleepless night . I cant tell you at pressent, but I will return to morrow - hopefully with an answer - or at least a guess. This is all very difficult, but if we can pin point the flowers we are quite a step further. Flowers, colours and animals were not only decoration - they had their own meaning beyond the decorative thing. Jens

25th February 2005, 04:31 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Any flower with thorns is a rose. Any flower without thorns is a tulip. This classification served me rather well over the years: my wife had to take full responsibility fot the flower bed and I am not asked to get involved.