MANDAU HANDLE

David · 25th March 2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hello David, mine wasn't a post against what you say but only a more general thought on these weapons

No problem Flavio. I took no offense. I was merely trying to qualify my statement for better understanding.
Ben, i know many others posted hilts, but i would still appreciate your opinion on the one i posted early in the thread. To me it appears to have been carved by an artful hand and has a nice patina. It doesn't apppear to be very old, but my impression have led me to believe it to be pre-WW2. Does the style of carving allow you to determine the region of origin as well. Thanks.

VANDOO · 26th March 2007, 04:59 AM

JUST TO THROW IN ANOTHER POSSIBILITY. THEY ARE DOING SOME EXCELLENT WOOD, BONE ,STONE AND ANTLER CARVEINGS IN BALI SO IT IS POSSIBLE THEY MAY BE MAKEING SOME DAYAK STYLE HANDLES THERE FOR SALE. I AM SURE THERE ARE SOME ARTISTS IN BALI WHO COULD DUPLICATE ANY MANDAU HANDLE OR SCABBARD YOU BROUGHT THEM. FORTUNATELY THEY PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THE PATINA AND WEAR LOOK AUTHENTIC OR AT LEAST WOULD NOT MAKE THE EXTRA EFFORT TO DO SO. THE BIG PROBLEM IS IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL FOR SURE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT BASED ON PICTURES ON THE INTERNET ESPECIALLY PATINA AND WEAR.
THERE ARE ALSO ARTISTS OF VARYING SKILL STILL MAKEING THEM IN BORNEO SOME EXCELLENT AND SOME POOR. THERE ARE SWORDS IN SHOPS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR MANY YEARS AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARRIVED RECENTLY. IF I LIVED IN BORNEO I WOULD PROBABLY TRY AND FIND THE BEST CARVERS AND COLLECT SOME OF THEIR WORK OR COMISSION SOME THAT WAY YOU WOULD HAVE GOOD PROVENANCE, EXCELLENT EXAMPLES AND IT WOULD BE AUTHENTIC DAYAK ART. UNFORTUNATELY YOU CAN'T TELL HOW GOOD A CARVER IS BASED ON WHAT YOU SEE IN A SHOP AS THEY DON'T DO THEIR BEST WORK ON A GROUP OF LIKE SWORDS BEING SENT TO THE SHOPS FOR SALE TO TOURISTS. PERHAPS THE GOVERNMENT OR MUSEUMS COULD HAVE A CARVING COMPETICIAN AND THE ARTISTS COULD SUBMIT THEIR BEST AND RECEIVE RECOGNITION, FREE PROMOTION AND REWARDS. I WOULD CERTIANLY BE INTERESTED IN SEEING SUCH A CONTEST AND WOULD CERTIANLY BUY FROM THE CARVERS I LIKED BEST IF I COULD AFFORD TO.

AS TO HEADHUNTING SWORDS MOSTLY YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT SWORDS MADE IN THE DAYS WHEN IT WAS COMMON PRACTICE PROBABLY TOOK HEADS. EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT UP TO THE RECENT TIME MAY HAVE OR MAY NOT HAVE BUT MOST LIKELY DID NOT. THERE MAY BE A COMMON MACHETE, PARANG OR MANDAU THAT HAS TAKEN HEADS IN THE RECENT OUTBREAK BUT THAT HAS NO APPEAL TO ME. THE REASON COLLECTORS PREFER THE OLD ONES IS THAT THEY WERE MORE IMPORTANT TO THE TRIBES WHEN TAKEING HEADS WAS THE CUSTOM, SO MORE WORK WAS PUT INTO MAKEING THEM. A WARRIOR OF THOSE TIMES WANTED THE BEST HE COULD AFFORD AND ALL THE PROPER CHARMS AND TAILSMEN CARVED INTO OR ATTACHED TO HIS SWORD TO PROTECT HIM AND TO GIVE HIM HEADS.

josh stout · 26th March 2007, 05:09 PM

I am new to this forum, but there are some easy ways to tell that the first handle shown is a reproduction. As people mentioned, the patina is faked, but the carving is also quite crude. The lines are not deeply incised, and there are no pierced areas. The biggest telltale is that the antler chosen for the carving was too thin, which forced the carver to follow the curve of the antler rather than making something more ergonomic. The second handle posted shows much better carving, with several pierced sections, evidence of wear, and the look of a functional handle. All of the curved carvings look continuous and organic without sharp angles from power tools and shoddy workmanship. I would love to hear about the third handle shown. I have mixed feelings on it.

How long is the first mandau? Most tourist ones are on the short side.
Josh

Dajak · 26th March 2007, 08:54 PM

The size don t have anything to do with it is tourist or not.

David the one you have is is nice carved can you show also the blade and scabbard the type off handle don t look that old to me that it is before ww2 but I could be wrong .

Ben

David · 26th March 2007, 10:12 PM

Ben, you may well be right about the age. I don't know very much about these blade so dating them isn't easy for me. There is wear and patina to the handle and the blade's edge shows some use with nicks here and there. I know some folks put a good deal of importance on whether or not these swords have taken heads, but for me that is of little importance. I am mostly interested in them because of the extraordinary style of dayak art, which to my eyes seems very advanced. I posted this once before when i was still posting as Nechesh, but didn't get much feedback:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Mandau
Any information you might have would be helpful.

Dajak · 26th March 2007, 11:19 PM

An good book is from A.R. Hein Malerei un technische künste bei den Dayaks.

or Indonesische schwertgriffe . also from Hein

Ben

David · 27th March 2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

An good book is from A.R. Hein Malerei un technische künste bei den Dayaks.
or Indonesische schwertgriffe . also from Hein
Ben

Any you would recommend in English?

asomotif · 27th March 2007, 01:37 PM

For the sake of conversation enclosed pictures of a very large hilt

Old or New ? Tourist or not tourist ?

paolo · 30th March 2007, 02:49 PM

I'm proud of my mandau !!!
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=361
Paolo

27th March 2007, 01:37 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,237	For the sake of conversation enclosed pictures of a very large hilt Old or New ? Tourist or not tourist ? Attached Images

26th March 2007, 04:59 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	JUST TO THROW IN ANOTHER POSSIBILITY. THEY ARE DOING SOME EXCELLENT WOOD, BONE ,STONE AND ANTLER CARVEINGS IN BALI SO IT IS POSSIBLE THEY MAY BE MAKEING SOME DAYAK STYLE HANDLES THERE FOR SALE. I AM SURE THERE ARE SOME ARTISTS IN BALI WHO COULD DUPLICATE ANY MANDAU HANDLE OR SCABBARD YOU BROUGHT THEM. FORTUNATELY THEY PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THE PATINA AND WEAR LOOK AUTHENTIC OR AT LEAST WOULD NOT MAKE THE EXTRA EFFORT TO DO SO. THE BIG PROBLEM IS IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL FOR SURE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT BASED ON PICTURES ON THE INTERNET ESPECIALLY PATINA AND WEAR. THERE ARE ALSO ARTISTS OF VARYING SKILL STILL MAKEING THEM IN BORNEO SOME EXCELLENT AND SOME POOR. THERE ARE SWORDS IN SHOPS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR MANY YEARS AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARRIVED RECENTLY. IF I LIVED IN BORNEO I WOULD PROBABLY TRY AND FIND THE BEST CARVERS AND COLLECT SOME OF THEIR WORK OR COMISSION SOME THAT WAY YOU WOULD HAVE GOOD PROVENANCE, EXCELLENT EXAMPLES AND IT WOULD BE AUTHENTIC DAYAK ART. UNFORTUNATELY YOU CAN'T TELL HOW GOOD A CARVER IS BASED ON WHAT YOU SEE IN A SHOP AS THEY DON'T DO THEIR BEST WORK ON A GROUP OF LIKE SWORDS BEING SENT TO THE SHOPS FOR SALE TO TOURISTS. PERHAPS THE GOVERNMENT OR MUSEUMS COULD HAVE A CARVING COMPETICIAN AND THE ARTISTS COULD SUBMIT THEIR BEST AND RECEIVE RECOGNITION, FREE PROMOTION AND REWARDS. I WOULD CERTIANLY BE INTERESTED IN SEEING SUCH A CONTEST AND WOULD CERTIANLY BUY FROM THE CARVERS I LIKED BEST IF I COULD AFFORD TO. AS TO HEADHUNTING SWORDS MOSTLY YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT SWORDS MADE IN THE DAYS WHEN IT WAS COMMON PRACTICE PROBABLY TOOK HEADS. EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT UP TO THE RECENT TIME MAY HAVE OR MAY NOT HAVE BUT MOST LIKELY DID NOT. THERE MAY BE A COMMON MACHETE, PARANG OR MANDAU THAT HAS TAKEN HEADS IN THE RECENT OUTBREAK BUT THAT HAS NO APPEAL TO ME. THE REASON COLLECTORS PREFER THE OLD ONES IS THAT THEY WERE MORE IMPORTANT TO THE TRIBES WHEN TAKEING HEADS WAS THE CUSTOM, SO MORE WORK WAS PUT INTO MAKEING THEM. A WARRIOR OF THOSE TIMES WANTED THE BEST HE COULD AFFORD AND ALL THE PROPER CHARMS AND TAILSMEN CARVED INTO OR ATTACHED TO HIS SWORD TO PROTECT HIM AND TO GIVE HIM HEADS.

26th March 2007, 05:09 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I am new to this forum, but there are some easy ways to tell that the first handle shown is a reproduction. As people mentioned, the patina is faked, but the carving is also quite crude. The lines are not deeply incised, and there are no pierced areas. The biggest telltale is that the antler chosen for the carving was too thin, which forced the carver to follow the curve of the antler rather than making something more ergonomic. The second handle posted shows much better carving, with several pierced sections, evidence of wear, and the look of a functional handle. All of the curved carvings look continuous and organic without sharp angles from power tools and shoddy workmanship. I would love to hear about the third handle shown. I have mixed feelings on it. How long is the first mandau? Most tourist ones are on the short side. Josh

26th March 2007, 08:54 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The size don t have anything to do with it is tourist or not. David the one you have is is nice carved can you show also the blade and scabbard the type off handle don t look that old to me that it is before ww2 but I could be wrong . Ben

26th March 2007, 10:12 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Ben, you may well be right about the age. I don't know very much about these blade so dating them isn't easy for me. There is wear and patina to the handle and the blade's edge shows some use with nicks here and there. I know some folks put a good deal of importance on whether or not these swords have taken heads, but for me that is of little importance. I am mostly interested in them because of the extraordinary style of dayak art, which to my eyes seems very advanced. I posted this once before when i was still posting as Nechesh, but didn't get much feedback: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Mandau Any information you might have would be helpful.

26th March 2007, 11:19 PM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	An good book is from A.R. Hein Malerei un technische künste bei den Dayaks. or Indonesische schwertgriffe . also from Hein Ben

30th March 2007, 02:49 PM	#9
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	I'm proud of my mandau !!! http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=361 Paolo