Bronze Age Weapons from Romania???

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Barrett,
Thank you for the very detailed response! and I'm glad that some of the material proved useful. It sounds like you already have a pretty good approach toward your ajenda for learning more on early Romanian culture and arms. Actually I have always found the history of Eastern Europe mysterious and entirely intriguing, though I cannot claim any specific knowledge, only very general. I think that it is outstanding that you are maintaining such responsible approach in your research and quest for accuracy in your studies. It seems that many are caught up in romanticism and fantasy and fail to really reach historical accuracy in thier efforts to reproduce the original weaponry, fashion and proper use of arms.

Acquiring authentic antiques from these regions is especially difficult as there is indeed an incredible volume of 'misrepresented' items out there, and anything authentic will be unbelievably expensive. You will be wise to visit or contact museums for information on thier holdings, and often they will of course have published catalogs of thier weapons. I think Wolviex here on this forum may have some excellent resources pertaining to weaponry from these regions. It would seem that Radu has disappeared, and we haven't heard from him much lately..but of course he would have great resources.

"Archaeology" magazine is published by :
Archaeological Institute of America
656 Beacon St.
Boston, Mass. 02215-2010

www.archaeology.org

I would ask if you might obtain any articles or back issues on your topic from them. It really is an outstanding magazine and would likely have information on excavations in the areas you are studying. Computer searches online, as you already are well aware, provide amazing resources.

A very interesting softback book is "The Bronze Age in Europe" by Jean-Pierre Mohen and Christiane Eluere, in the 'Discoveries' series published by Abrams in N.Y. While clearly an overview, this book provides a colorful array of illustrations of costume and especially weapons etc. from many regions that were certainly close in sphere to Romania. There is one illustration of a wagon from a Romanian excavation. This is easily obtained on line and of course inexpensive, being more of pocketbook size, still fascinating though!

We'll talk more OK,
All the best,
Jim

[Barrett Hiebert]

Greetings,

Manolo:

Salut,

Hi Barrett!
A quick reply before going off.
First of all, drop the DNA test idea, it wouldn't get you far, as it isn't reliable. Furthermore, populations moved around a lot, even within the country, so you wouldn't get any true geographic marking past a few hundred years I don't think.

Now the curved bronze sword. I think that is purely a double-edged spada type, and that it was ritually killed for burial. The sword of the deceased was often bent in bronze-age cultures, thus killing the object's use as a weapon. I personally do not believe that it was a precursor of the sica, because this is a double-edged blade and it was originally straight. If the way it looks now is original, then we'd have the daddy/mother of the yataghan/sossoon pata on our hands

For that matter, do bronze single-edged weapons exist in Europe? A single edge would generally be seen on convex or concave blades no? with the exception of those with a T-spine. The Greek kopis is the only one that comes to mind. It would be nice to find where weapons such as the Thracian Rhomphaia come from. (the rhomphaia is the precursor of the smaller sica/falx, but what is the source of the rhomphaia?)

All the best,
Emanuel

Thanks for the quick reply before you left. Also, about the DNA test, thanks for that tidbit of advice. I never knew that. I was thinking of the tests used to find the geographical location of a skeleton, or a remains of a body, so that was what I was basing my premise on.

Also, I agree with you about the bent spada, . I never connected that the blade was therefore not a forefather to the sica, falx since it had a double-edge. Also, isn't the forefather to the yataghan/sosoon pata the kopis/makhaira. I love the look of both blades, the kopis/makhaira and the yataghan, though barely know of the sosoon pata. Though, I've always wondered, "?why haven't we seen more historical blades that are curved and double-edged such as the one that I've shown, throughout history?" I think such a blade would be a clearly efficient and useful weapon. But then I may be inputing to much "Modern" thinking into such a question. Who know's?

To the extent of my knowledge, I have seen examples of small single-edged bronze age curved knives, but nothing so large as a kopis/machaira, or falcata. I think that these blades were made out of iron later on, as can be seen in Classical Greece and other later Hellenistic areas.

As for the Rhomphaia, their are some historical authentic blades that I have seen with a T-spine, a few pieces by John Pipsico (all iron), that were featured in a myarmoury thread, which I could find again. And if I remember correctly, the Thracian Rhomphaia was a distinct, seperate development, and it developed from the falcata/kopis, and was purely a weapon development rather than an agricultural tool/self-defense weapons as was the Dacian falx. I don't think that the Rhomphaia was made out of bronze at any time at all throughout the Bronze Age, the technology not being able to cast something so long. But I may be wrong, when I get around to it, I'll ask around on the Bronze Age Center.

Hope, I have answered all your questions. Cheers!

Jim McDougall:

I'll get to you as quickly as possible, though right now, I have fitness class and have to work those sword-fighting muscles! (Kinda, more like build strength and endurance, lol) Cheers! Get back to you soon!

Best regards,

Barrett Michael Hiebert

[Barrett Hiebert]

Greetings,

Okay, here I am Mr. McDougall. Sorry for the wait:

Thank you for the very detailed response! and I'm glad that some of the material proved useful. It sounds like you already have a pretty good approach toward your ajenda for learning more on early Romanian culture and arms. Actually I have always found the history of Eastern Europe mysterious and entirely intriguing, though I cannot claim any specific knowledge, only very general. I think that it is outstanding that you are maintaining such responsible approach in your research and quest for accuracy in your studies. It seems that many are caught up in romanticism and fantasy and fail to really reach historical accuracy in thier efforts to reproduce the original weaponry, fashion and proper use of arms.

Thankyou very much for the comments. I will definately take them to heart. As I have already said, I wish to be historically as possible. I personally think this would honour my ancestor's, but they most likely think me, or any of us doing research, historically re-enactment, that wer'e very peculiar and odd. For right now, I have to expand my horizons, broaden my interest, then really go and research, and learn all about and try to re-enact to the best of my abilities my chosen road.

Acquiring authentic antiques from these regions is especially difficult as there is indeed an incredible volume of 'misrepresented' items out there, and anything authentic will be unbelievably expensive. You will be wise to visit or contact museums for information on thier holdings, and often they will of course have published catalogs of thier weapons. I think Wolviex here on this forum may have some excellent resources pertaining to weaponry from these regions. It would seem that Radu has disappeared, and we haven't heard from him much lately..but of course he would have great resources.

Yes, I should very well do that, but I may need some help in "wording" such contacts with museums, as I think it wise to be direct and ask such questions in a polite, thoughtful manner.

I will definately check on Wolviex to see if he has any interesting information that could pertain to the areas that I refer to. Thanks, .

Yes, I need to talk to Radu, haha! He would be excellent, but he seemed to have disappear the last time I posted on this forum?

So, thanks for the perceptible information contacts, haha!

"Archaeology" magazine is published by :

Also, thanks for the link to the "Archaeology" magazine.

I would ask if you might obtain any articles or back issues on your topic from them. It really is an outstanding magazine and would likely have information on excavations in the areas you are studying. Computer searches online, as you already are well aware, provide amazing resources.

Definately, I would do that for you, and if allowed, I would love to "dispel" the information on the forum here. I have heard of it's reputation, but I have never had the excellent chance of reading it, sadly. Though, in the area of computer searches, I still have yet to do an indepth scour of the internet, I have checked on google, but you get alot of rubbish, believe it or not.

A very interesting softback book is "The Bronze Age in Europe" by Jean-Pierre Mohen and Christiane Eluere, in the 'Discoveries' series published by Abrams in N.Y. While clearly an overview, this book provides a colorful array of illustrations of costume and especially weapons etc. from many regions that were certainly close in sphere to Romania. There is one illustration of a wagon from a Romanian excavation. This is easily obtained on line and of course inexpensive, being more of pocketbook size, still fascinating though!

Yes, it is an excellent beginner book, and awesome to give a general look, knowledge of the Bronze Age to the starter-outer. I know so, because I have read it! Haha! It was a few of the books first recommended to me through Bronze Age Center to read to get my feet wet, so to say!

I actually have a link on the internet on my computer at home dealing with the Bronze Age, but I don't read french, does anyone on this forum at all knows french???

We'll talk more OK,

Yep, for sure, look forward to it! Cheers!

Best regards,

Barrett Michael Hiebert