Choora-- Pesh Kabz-- Definition

spiral · 21st February 2007, 06:00 PM

I guess another possible variable is whether Lord Eggerton helper was Afghani or Indian? {I would imagine most of his staff would be Indian?}

Choora is also used in India by Hindus as a derogatory term meaning, "low class" often used offensivly against people of lower castes/ class, or of course even "untouchables"

So perhaps Eggerton asked his Indian assitant "whats this?" & was told it was ""low class" the equivalent of "junk" perhaps?

Spiral

Berkley · 21st February 2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

The gentleman in question was Lord Egerton of Tatton

Interesting, as the word "choora" does not appear in the index or, so far as I can tell, the text of Egerton's Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour, although the term "Peshkabz" appears several times.

ariel · 21st February 2007, 11:03 PM

It is also called Shotor Kosh in Iran: "Camel Killer" or close to that.
Any funny stories about that name?

katana · 22nd February 2007, 01:59 AM

Interesting thread...it does make you wonder how many other weapons may have gained a 'universal' name because of mistakes in translation/ language difficulties, or as a result of a name given to a weapon that perhaps was very localised to a small area (and that person was asked by the 'researcher' what 'it' was) but had a different more common name over the entire region.

I think, if the 'story' of how the choora was so named, is true. It seems likely that this would be because of language difficulties, (or an abusive interpretor

)

If this knife was used for catration

surely there would be documented evidence.....AFAIK knights had a dagger called a bollock knife, it was used to pierce the relatively unprotected groin area......could this be perhaps a possibility in the manner it was used

Rick · 22nd February 2007, 02:09 AM

The Bollock Knife is named for the shape of its hilt I believe ....

katana · 22nd February 2007, 02:27 AM

Rick, I'm not so certain you are right. There is a theory that 'form' followed function. That the dagger used by the knight to attack a 'felled' opponent in the groin area became known as a bollock knife ...and that later the spherical guard design came later. ( I suppose to advertise it's use

)

Regards David

Rick · 22nd February 2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Rick, I'm not so certain you are right. There is a theory that 'form' followed function. That the dagger used by the knight to attack a 'felled' opponent in the groin area became known as a bollock knife ...and that later the spherical guard design came later. ( I suppose to advertise it's use

)

Regards David

Now that's dirty pool ......

ariel · 22nd February 2007, 04:17 AM

The only example of a target-specific weapon I know is a Kubikiri: a Japanese knife to behead the dead enemy.
Felled knights were usually finished off with a Misericordia. Its thin blade (a spike, actually) was designed to stick it into the seam of sectional armor. The best place was, of course, the neck but one can easily imagine a particularly sadistic victor using... inguinal area as a target. It would be difficult to imagine a warrior carrying a panoply of implements for each particular area of the body: one for the wrist, another for the armpit, yet another one for ... bollocks. Battlefield is not a kitchen where the chef has paring knives, boning knives, slicers, dicers etc.
This is the reason I doubt the theory of the bollock knife being used for a particular function first and appropriately decorated later. Daggers and swords always had somewhat phallic connotations; the addition of ovoid protrusions to the base of the hilt just reinforced the idea.
See:
http://www.answers.com/topic/bollock-dagger

21st February 2007, 06:00 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I guess another possible variable is whether Lord Eggerton helper was Afghani or Indian? {I would imagine most of his staff would be Indian?} Choora is also used in India by Hindus as a derogatory term meaning, "low class" often used offensivly against people of lower castes/ class, or of course even "untouchables" So perhaps Eggerton asked his Indian assitant "whats this?" & was told it was ""low class" the equivalent of "junk" perhaps? Spiral

21st February 2007, 11:03 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is also called Shotor Kosh in Iran: "Camel Killer" or close to that. Any funny stories about that name?

22nd February 2007, 01:59 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Interesting thread...it does make you wonder how many other weapons may have gained a 'universal' name because of mistakes in translation/ language difficulties, or as a result of a name given to a weapon that perhaps was very localised to a small area (and that person was asked by the 'researcher' what 'it' was) but had a different more common name over the entire region. I think, if the 'story' of how the choora was so named, is true. It seems likely that this would be because of language difficulties, (or an abusive interpretor ) If this knife was used for catration surely there would be documented evidence.....AFAIK knights had a dagger called a bollock knife, it was used to pierce the relatively unprotected groin area......could this be perhaps a possibility in the manner it was used

22nd February 2007, 02:09 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	The Bollock Knife is named for the shape of its hilt I believe ....

22nd February 2007, 02:27 AM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Rick, I'm not so certain you are right. There is a theory that 'form' followed function. That the dagger used by the knight to attack a 'felled' opponent in the groin area became known as a bollock knife ...and that later the spherical guard design came later. ( I suppose to advertise it's use ) Regards David

22nd February 2007, 04:17 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The only example of a target-specific weapon I know is a Kubikiri: a Japanese knife to behead the dead enemy. Felled knights were usually finished off with a Misericordia. Its thin blade (a spike, actually) was designed to stick it into the seam of sectional armor. The best place was, of course, the neck but one can easily imagine a particularly sadistic victor using... inguinal area as a target. It would be difficult to imagine a warrior carrying a panoply of implements for each particular area of the body: one for the wrist, another for the armpit, yet another one for ... bollocks. Battlefield is not a kitchen where the chef has paring knives, boning knives, slicers, dicers etc. This is the reason I doubt the theory of the bollock knife being used for a particular function first and appropriately decorated later. Daggers and swords always had somewhat phallic connotations; the addition of ovoid protrusions to the base of the hilt just reinforced the idea. See: http://www.answers.com/topic/bollock-dagger