Very Interesting Indian sword for discussion

B.I · 20th February 2005, 12:54 PM

hi rick,
another thing, i cant see the duck emblem on the tipu helmet in elgoods book, no matter how hard i look. all i can see is a symetrical representation of the bubri stripes, back to back and terminating in a chsselled tiger head. i'm not saying its not there, its just i cant see what you see.

tom hyle · 20th February 2005, 02:11 PM

BI, that pic stirs something; I've seen this hilt style made of stone somewhere.....

Jens Nordlunde · 20th February 2005, 03:48 PM

B.I.
To be more precice, the picture you have attached is from the exhibition Splendeur des Armes Orientales, and can be seen in the catalogue of the same name. The text reads: The hilt Deccani, Mahratta(?), probably late 17th century.

What Tom writes about the hilts is new to me too – interesting, we live to learn.
Tom maybe the stone hilt you are thinking of is #167 in the above-mentioned catalogue.
In the catalogue ‘Persian and Indo-Persian Arms and Armour of 16th – 19th Century from Polish Collections’, is shown a shamshir with a hilt of the same type. The text reads: Indo-Persian sabre 18th – 19th century.

Rsword, you really have a very nice sword, and I understand if you are proud of it. Just like B.I., I too have a weakness for this kind of Indian watering which shows very well.
I have a chevron blade where the light parts have the same watering – typical Indian. The hilt is, like B.I. writes, influenced from different cultures, and the koftgari very nice and remarkably intact.

B.I · 20th February 2005, 04:09 PM

almost jens, it is the same sword but i took the image from david alexanders catalogue of the khalili collection (who bought the sword after the parisian exhibition). i mention this because he doesnt mention a possible maharatha connection, which i agree is a little spurious. both this hilt and ricks share the same persian influence, which i dont think effected the maharathan culture. the murals that prevailed throughout their dominance in the region, and the distinctive style of basket hilt have always hinted at a purer hindu heritage in art style, as apposed the the mughal influence and a persian heritage. i think ricketts saw the quillions which hint at a deccani style, but i think the persionised pommel cap hint at heavily influenced style, inherant in more mughal pieces. also, the deccan sultanate took its influences from a persian culture which wasnt maharathan at all. only an opinion and still desperately trying to add to my 'nice sword rick' contribution

yes, jens. lets hope the rest of the commercial world doesnt catch up with our passion for this style of watering. i'm quite happy with indian watering being overshadowed by the more sought after persian style. it makes it still affordable...almost.

20th February 2005, 12:54 PM	#1
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi rick, another thing, i cant see the duck emblem on the tipu helmet in elgoods book, no matter how hard i look. all i can see is a symetrical representation of the bubri stripes, back to back and terminating in a chsselled tiger head. i'm not saying its not there, its just i cant see what you see.

20th February 2005, 02:11 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BI, that pic stirs something; I've seen this hilt style made of stone somewhere.....

20th February 2005, 03:48 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	B.I. To be more precice, the picture you have attached is from the exhibition Splendeur des Armes Orientales, and can be seen in the catalogue of the same name. The text reads: The hilt Deccani, Mahratta(?), probably late 17th century. What Tom writes about the hilts is new to me too – interesting, we live to learn. Tom maybe the stone hilt you are thinking of is #167 in the above-mentioned catalogue. In the catalogue ‘Persian and Indo-Persian Arms and Armour of 16th – 19th Century from Polish Collections’, is shown a shamshir with a hilt of the same type. The text reads: Indo-Persian sabre 18th – 19th century. Rsword, you really have a very nice sword, and I understand if you are proud of it. Just like B.I., I too have a weakness for this kind of Indian watering which shows very well. I have a chevron blade where the light parts have the same watering – typical Indian. The hilt is, like B.I. writes, influenced from different cultures, and the koftgari very nice and remarkably intact.

20th February 2005, 04:09 PM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	almost jens, it is the same sword but i took the image from david alexanders catalogue of the khalili collection (who bought the sword after the parisian exhibition). i mention this because he doesnt mention a possible maharatha connection, which i agree is a little spurious. both this hilt and ricks share the same persian influence, which i dont think effected the maharathan culture. the murals that prevailed throughout their dominance in the region, and the distinctive style of basket hilt have always hinted at a purer hindu heritage in art style, as apposed the the mughal influence and a persian heritage. i think ricketts saw the quillions which hint at a deccani style, but i think the persionised pommel cap hint at heavily influenced style, inherant in more mughal pieces. also, the deccan sultanate took its influences from a persian culture which wasnt maharathan at all. only an opinion and still desperately trying to add to my 'nice sword rick' contribution yes, jens. lets hope the rest of the commercial world doesnt catch up with our passion for this style of watering. i'm quite happy with indian watering being overshadowed by the more sought after persian style. it makes it still affordable...almost.