My first flyssa

[Emanuel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The curved examples as shown by Kronckew, in my opinion are not a development of the flyssa, and though often termed either flyssa, nimcha or even yataghan in very loose descriptions, seem to me to have derived most likely from European naval dirks of the 19th c. These are often very nicely made, as the example shown by Kronckew, but I think are elements of costume that are found throughout Saharan regions and mostly 20th c.
...
The term nimcha, according to Elgood, is basically an Arab term meaning small sword (nim, cha or sha) and of course seems misapplied to the full size sabres of Morocco distinguished by this term (actually more often called sa'if).

Hello Jim!

ErnestoJuan and I had discussed these strange variants and some point, and we looked as some interesting examples on ebay. I think they're the original small nimcha, which was then made into the tourist dance variant with long, curved and very thin blade cut from sheet metal, and the extremely large handle and pommel that looks like those of the saif-nimcha. I like the attribution to European naval dirks, thanks for that . I guess these are often mistaken as flyssa because of the similar decorative scheme - often the same geometric motifs and the same carving on scabbards and handles. I understand that their blades are much thinner than those of true flyssa, is this correct?

Yup, I definitely like the study of ethnographic arms!! A healthy, albeit costly obsession.

Emanuel

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Emanuel,
Exactly right!! Good point on the associations to the other weapons via the decorative schemes, that does seem very reasonable, especially coupled with the terminology difficulties. The semantics in ethnographic weapons terminology becomes even more maddening in spheres such as the Indonesian, where a weapon may be called by different names even in various villages. There, much as in the Indian subcontinent, the variation in dialects often becomes profuse, even though the variation may be subtle in degree.
The blades on the true flyssa are actually very well forged, and typically actually quite heavy. I have always considered them rather awkward because the length and weight of the blade seems disproportionate to the relatively small, unguarded grip. But, as I claim no true understanding of martial arts, and especially the exact manner in which these were used, I may be off track

Actually I hadn't noticed the idea on the naval dirks before myself, as I hadnt really none much on the small variants prior to this. While working on another project, I came across a number of portraits of European naval officers with these dirks, and the association seemed pretty compelling. It always seems that serendipity is one of the most driving forces in the study of these weapons and yes, it is very, very addicting, and often pretty costly.
That is most often the theme here in our group therapy session!!!
But always fun, thanks for being here too !!

All the best,
Jim

[Emanuel]

Just watch Jim, in a few years I'll undertake my super-massive flyssa study in Algeria and the large flyssa collections of the world and publish something close to "definitive"
I'll dig into all the archives and find that ellusive ethnographic report that tells us how these beauties were forged, when/where and all that

Continuing to enjoy the therapy (and getting sicker ),
Emanuel

[Jim McDougall]

Emanuel JUDL!!!
And when you 'fly the cuckoos nest' to do that, I'll be cheerin' you on!! and be there to say 'I knew you when'!!

All the best !!
Your fellow 'sickie'
Jim

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Manolo

... I understand that their blades are much thinner than those of true flyssa, is this correct?
...

just for further information, the blade on my curved knife above is 6mm wide at the spine near the guard, tapering down to the point. the guard is fairly thin brass and not really suitable as a defensive guard, being more decorative, though it is satisfactory for preventing the hand sliding down onto the blade. the blade is razor sharp and appears to be a concave grind rather than flat. the grip is decorated brass sheet over wood, held by a large number of small flathead brads set flush to the brass in a decorative straight line pattern.

[Emanuel]

hmm that means business. So let's put this down to a knife variant borrowing charcteristics from European examples, interpreted in the way of local precedents, and slowly converted or adapted to ceremonial uses and the tourist trade. Yours is the original from which the tourist ones developed then.

Emanuel