The Knife, Sacrifice and Meaning

VANDOO · 15th January 2007, 12:47 AM

HUMAN SACRIFICE HAS BEEN COMMON IN MANS PAST IT IS EVEN MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE. THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN STORIES OF CANNIBALS SINCE ANCIENT TIMES CYCLOPS,ORGES ,ECT. OFTEN FALSE ACCUSATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST A SOCIETY BY THEIR ENEMYS TO MAKE THEIR PEOPLE HATE AND FEAR THE ENEMY AND FIGHT BETTER FEARING THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT THEY HAD BEEN TOLD WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY LOST. FALSE ACCUSATIONS HAVE ALSO BEEN WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS OF THE WAR OR CONQUEST TO EXCUSE THE TERRIBLE THINGS THEY HAD DONE.

TODAY IT IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT IN MY COUNTRY TO BRING UP SOME SUBJECTS REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH OF IT. I SUSPECT THAT IS WHY IN THE MOVIE THIS WAS TIPTOED AROUND AND THE BODIES WERE SHOWN DISCARDED EVEN THOUGH THE PEOPLE WERE STARVING DUE TO CROP FAILURE AND SICKNESS. I DID SOME RESEARCH ON THE AZTEC MANY YEARS AGO AND LOOKED UP SOME OF THE WRITTEN REPORTS FROM CORTEZ TO SPAIN THEY MENTIONED THE SKULL RACKS, CANNIBALISM. ONE REPORT TOLD OF HOW HE AND HIS MEN WITNESSED THE SACRIFICE OF SOME OF THEIR GROUP THAT HAD BEEN CAPTURED AND WHAT HAPPENED IN DETAIL. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN FABRICATED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED ABOVE BUT SUBSEQUENT ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGS HAVE TURNED UP LARGE NUMBERS OF HUMAN SKELETONS SHOWING THE KNIFE MARKS ON THE BONES INDICATING THEY HAD BEEN BUTCHERED. THIS IS NOT MENTIONED MUCH AS SOME GROUPS OR GOVERNMENTS WOULD BE OFFENDED BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT IT DID OCCUR IN SOME AREAS, TRIBES AND TIMES THRUOUT HISTORY. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT GO DO SOME RESEARCH, IT IS A INTERESTING SUBJECT AND ANCIENT AMERICAN CIVILIZATIONS WERE QUITE REMARKABLE. IT IS TOO BAD THAT SO MUCH OF THEIR HISTORY HAS BEEN DESTROYED OR SUPPRESSED BY THOSE WHO CONQURED THEM.
THE ARCHEOLOGISTS HAVE MADE SOME VERY REMARKABLE FINDS IN RECENT TIMES AND CONTINUE TO MAKE GREAT DISCOVERYS TODAY BUT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THEY HAVE JUST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE IN SOME AREAS. SEE ARCHEOLOGY MAGAZINE, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC AND NOVA. THERE HAS BEEN NEW DISCOVERIES EVERY YEAR FOR MANY YEARS AND WITH THE NEW SATALITE TECKNOLOGY THIS COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOM YEARS FOR ARCHEOLOGY IN THE AMERICAS.

Emanuel · 15th January 2007, 01:27 AM

Hi Vandoo,
I was wondering about the two mace heads you posted and the knife shown by Tim. I understand that most, if not all, pre-Colombian American weapons were carved from stone...what other sorts of weapons did Aztecs, Maya and Incas have? I imagine a whole range of clubs were used...

I have the impression that talk of cannibalism is taboo in most western cultures. There's something about it that crosses the line of imfamy I guess.

VANDOO · 15th January 2007, 01:42 AM

I HAVE PICTURES OF SEVERAL STONE AND JADE MACE HEADS, ATAL ATAL (SPEAR THROWERS) AND A GOLD COVERED CEREMONIAL MACE AS WELL AS SOME OTHER THINGS BUT COULD NOT GET THEM TO COME THRU IN MY POSTS. I SUSPECT THEY PROBABLY NEED RESIZED PERHAPS I CAN GET MY DAUGHTER TO SEE WHY I CAN'T INSTALL THE SOFTWARE THAT WAS IN A PREVIOUS FORUM POST SO I CAN TRY AND POST THEM AGAIN. I AM SOMEWHAT TECKNOLOGICALLY CHALLENGED AND HAVE TROUBLE FIGURING OUT HOW THESE GADGITS WORK. THE MOVIE DID SHOW A GOOD RANGE OF THE TYPES OF WEAPONS THEY HAD AND HOW THEY WERE USED.

Emanuel · 15th January 2007, 02:23 AM

I'll make a point of seeing this movie then. I had read about jade weapons and maks, I'll look some more online. There was something specifically spiritual/religious about jade wasn't there?

Try this: http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...ertoySetup.exe
It will install automatically to the system, then you only have to right-click on the picture files in their folders and select "Resize Pictures" you'll have a choice between four sizes.

Emanuel · 23rd January 2007, 03:56 PM

I just watched Apocalypto, and there is indeed a lot of food for thought. I liked the myriad jade artefacts they used. The obsidian knives and axes were amazing, and particularly the sword club -macuahitl- a very interesting weapon: "the prefered weapon of Aztec armies. Carved of hardwood, it was fitted with obsidian blades along the two cutting edges. The weapon was as sharp as a razor and intended to maim or otherwise disable an enemy so he could be captured."

They make me wonder at how strong jade must have been to be useful as a weapon.

At a number of points in the movie, the head mayan/aztec slave-hunter brandishes and uses a very nice obsidian blade with bone handle. It seemed like he employed it specifically for some meaningful kills, not the regular slaughter. So I guess a specific weapon can gain meaning as more than a tool over time, as its performance keeps demonstrating its power and usefulness.

23rd January 2007, 03:56 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I just watched Apocalypto, and there is indeed a lot of food for thought. I liked the myriad jade artefacts they used. The obsidian knives and axes were amazing, and particularly the sword club -macuahitl- a very interesting weapon: "the prefered weapon of Aztec armies. Carved of hardwood, it was fitted with obsidian blades along the two cutting edges. The weapon was as sharp as a razor and intended to maim or otherwise disable an enemy so he could be captured." They make me wonder at how strong jade must have been to be useful as a weapon. At a number of points in the movie, the head mayan/aztec slave-hunter brandishes and uses a very nice obsidian blade with bone handle. It seemed like he employed it specifically for some meaningful kills, not the regular slaughter. So I guess a specific weapon can gain meaning as more than a tool over time, as its performance keeps demonstrating its power and usefulness. Attached Images

15th January 2007, 12:47 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HUMAN SACRIFICE HAS BEEN COMMON IN MANS PAST IT IS EVEN MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE. THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN STORIES OF CANNIBALS SINCE ANCIENT TIMES CYCLOPS,ORGES ,ECT. OFTEN FALSE ACCUSATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST A SOCIETY BY THEIR ENEMYS TO MAKE THEIR PEOPLE HATE AND FEAR THE ENEMY AND FIGHT BETTER FEARING THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT THEY HAD BEEN TOLD WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY LOST. FALSE ACCUSATIONS HAVE ALSO BEEN WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS OF THE WAR OR CONQUEST TO EXCUSE THE TERRIBLE THINGS THEY HAD DONE. TODAY IT IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT IN MY COUNTRY TO BRING UP SOME SUBJECTS REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH OF IT. I SUSPECT THAT IS WHY IN THE MOVIE THIS WAS TIPTOED AROUND AND THE BODIES WERE SHOWN DISCARDED EVEN THOUGH THE PEOPLE WERE STARVING DUE TO CROP FAILURE AND SICKNESS. I DID SOME RESEARCH ON THE AZTEC MANY YEARS AGO AND LOOKED UP SOME OF THE WRITTEN REPORTS FROM CORTEZ TO SPAIN THEY MENTIONED THE SKULL RACKS, CANNIBALISM. ONE REPORT TOLD OF HOW HE AND HIS MEN WITNESSED THE SACRIFICE OF SOME OF THEIR GROUP THAT HAD BEEN CAPTURED AND WHAT HAPPENED IN DETAIL. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN FABRICATED FOR THE REASONS MENTIONED ABOVE BUT SUBSEQUENT ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGS HAVE TURNED UP LARGE NUMBERS OF HUMAN SKELETONS SHOWING THE KNIFE MARKS ON THE BONES INDICATING THEY HAD BEEN BUTCHERED. THIS IS NOT MENTIONED MUCH AS SOME GROUPS OR GOVERNMENTS WOULD BE OFFENDED BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT IT DID OCCUR IN SOME AREAS, TRIBES AND TIMES THRUOUT HISTORY. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT GO DO SOME RESEARCH, IT IS A INTERESTING SUBJECT AND ANCIENT AMERICAN CIVILIZATIONS WERE QUITE REMARKABLE. IT IS TOO BAD THAT SO MUCH OF THEIR HISTORY HAS BEEN DESTROYED OR SUPPRESSED BY THOSE WHO CONQURED THEM. THE ARCHEOLOGISTS HAVE MADE SOME VERY REMARKABLE FINDS IN RECENT TIMES AND CONTINUE TO MAKE GREAT DISCOVERYS TODAY BUT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THEY HAVE JUST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE IN SOME AREAS. SEE ARCHEOLOGY MAGAZINE, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC AND NOVA. THERE HAS BEEN NEW DISCOVERIES EVERY YEAR FOR MANY YEARS AND WITH THE NEW SATALITE TECKNOLOGY THIS COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOM YEARS FOR ARCHEOLOGY IN THE AMERICAS.

15th January 2007, 01:27 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Vandoo, I was wondering about the two mace heads you posted and the knife shown by Tim. I understand that most, if not all, pre-Colombian American weapons were carved from stone...what other sorts of weapons did Aztecs, Maya and Incas have? I imagine a whole range of clubs were used... I have the impression that talk of cannibalism is taboo in most western cultures. There's something about it that crosses the line of imfamy I guess.

15th January 2007, 01:42 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE PICTURES OF SEVERAL STONE AND JADE MACE HEADS, ATAL ATAL (SPEAR THROWERS) AND A GOLD COVERED CEREMONIAL MACE AS WELL AS SOME OTHER THINGS BUT COULD NOT GET THEM TO COME THRU IN MY POSTS. I SUSPECT THEY PROBABLY NEED RESIZED PERHAPS I CAN GET MY DAUGHTER TO SEE WHY I CAN'T INSTALL THE SOFTWARE THAT WAS IN A PREVIOUS FORUM POST SO I CAN TRY AND POST THEM AGAIN. I AM SOMEWHAT TECKNOLOGICALLY CHALLENGED AND HAVE TROUBLE FIGURING OUT HOW THESE GADGITS WORK. THE MOVIE DID SHOW A GOOD RANGE OF THE TYPES OF WEAPONS THEY HAD AND HOW THEY WERE USED.

15th January 2007, 02:23 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I'll make a point of seeing this movie then. I had read about jade weapons and maks, I'll look some more online. There was something specifically spiritual/religious about jade wasn't there? Try this: http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...ertoySetup.exe It will install automatically to the system, then you only have to right-click on the picture files in their folders and select "Resize Pictures" you'll have a choice between four sizes.